T Nation

Misconception on Protein


#1

Im 17 6'5 weigh 215 body type is skinny fat I would say. Started lifting a year ago but on and off so I would say definately a beginner. My question is the more protein consumed by an individual the better his gains? or is past a certain limit unnecessary
A typical days meals is
9am 16oz chicken, mashed potatoes
preworkout 2 rice cakes 4 slices turkey bacon
post workout 16oz chicken, mashed potatoes
5pm 8 oz salmon, 3 egg whites
8pm 2cans tuna
I only workout 45 min a day.

Worout split
Monday- Flat bench, shoulder dumbell press
Tuesday- Snatch grip deadlift, DB rows, Farmer carries
Wednesday- Deadlift
Thurday- Flat Bench, shoulder dumbell press
Friday- Snatch grip deadlift, DB rows, Farmer carries


#2

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im 17 6’5 weigh 215 body type is skinny fat I would say. Started lifting a year ago but on and off so I would say definately a beginner. My question is the more protein consumed by an individual the better his gains? or is past a certain limit unnecessary
A typical days meals is
9am 16oz chicken, mashed potatoes
preworkout 2 rice cakes 4 slices turkey bacon
post workout 16oz chicken, mashed potatoes
5pm 8 oz salmon, 3 egg whites
8pm 2cans tuna
I only workout 45 min a day.

Worout split
Monday- Flat bench, shoulder dumbell press
Tuesday- Snatch grip deadlift, DB rows, Farmer carries
Wednesday- Deadlift
Thurday- Flat Bench, shoulder dumbell press
Friday- Snatch grip deadlift, DB rows, Farmer carries[/quote]

Here are some thoughts on protein

But a good perspective on protein is
-am I getting bigger
-am I getting stronger

If the answer is yes, then you’re done thinking about it.
If the answer is no, eat some more.


#3

I know your woman is an angel but sometimes they’re not always 100% honest. Maybe you’re keeping up your side of the equation but her? She’s on protein or maybe she just says she is. There’s pregnancy but there’s also inflection. I am also a bit suspicious of the evidence around misconceptions on protein. So use protection brah!

Don’t rely on misconceptions, don’t believe in immaculate conceptions (see honesty point above). You should be right if you stick to that basic principle.


#4

[quote]tsantos wrote:
I know your woman is an angel but sometimes they’re not always 100% honest. Maybe you’re keeping up your side of the equation but her? She’s on protein or maybe she just says she is. There’s pregnancy but there’s also inflection. I am also a bit suspicious of the evidence around misconceptions on protein. So use protection brah!

Don’t rely on misconceptions, don’t believe in immaculate conceptions (see honesty point above). You should be right if you stick to that basic principle.[/quote]

Wut


#5

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]tsantos wrote:
I know your woman is an angel but sometimes they’re not always 100% honest. Maybe you’re keeping up your side of the equation but her? She’s on protein or maybe she just says she is. There’s pregnancy but there’s also inflection. I am also a bit suspicious of the evidence around misconceptions on protein. So use protection brah!

Don’t rely on misconceptions, don’t believe in immaculate conceptions (see honesty point above). You should be right if you stick to that basic principle.[/quote]

Wut[/quote]

Thats what Im saying


#6

Since you say you are a beginner, lets break things down into level of importance.

  1. Screw the “skinny fat” or ecto and any other classification of body types. You are unique and there are far too many other factors at play to be boxed into an abitrary classification.

  2. How much protein consumed is secondary to how much overall calories consumed per day and progression in strength in the gym. You don’t eat enough to gain weight and don’t give the muscle to grow through progressive resistance, you won’t grow.

  3. How much protein your body can use is individual. The general rule of thumb is around 1g/lb of bodyweight. I don’t need more than that per day unless I am assisted. Others go up to 1.5g/lb of bodyweight when natural. At your age and level, i would suggest you stick with 1g/lb as your progress will be rapid as long as you eat and train properly.

Now, protein aside, I’m a rather concerned about your routine. What are your goals? Why not use a normal strength routine?


#7

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
My question is the more protein consumed by an individual the better his gains? or is past a certain limit unnecessary[/quote]
Yes, there’s definitely a point of diminishing returns with protein intake. The good news is that, basically, you have to try to eat too much to come close to “too much”.

A general rule of thumb for guys looking to build muscle is to shoot for 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Some guys will bump that up to 1.5, or sometimes 2 grams per pound in the most dedicated bulking phases. In your case, as a young dude who has a lot of room to fill out, you’ll be fine shooting for the higher end as long as your training is of decent intensity and volume.

Past that level of intake, you’re not really going to get an extra benefit (without some “anabolic support”) and you run the risk of “teaching” your body to use protein for fuel since it would be so abundant in the diet (especially since carbs and fat can be protein-sparing anyway).

For most people, eating too little protein is much more likely than eating too much, but either extreme can have negative effects. Of course, total calories, fat, and carb intake are also factors.

I didn’t run the exact numbers, but if that’s even 3,000 calories, I’d be surprised. Are you gaining bodyweight with this type of eating? At your height and weight, I’d expect you to need more, but if you are gaining consistently and significantly, then that’s that.

You need egg whites like I need an extra appendix. There’s no purpose. Eat whole eggs.

Why?

Even if you only have 45 minutes for a training session (which is flat-out incorrect unless you’re working 40 hours a week in addition to school), I’d consider a different approach. Most especially one that works your legs, beanpole. And I say that as a comrade over-6-footer. Leg training sucks, but do it anyway.


#8

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Since you say you are a beginner, lets break things down into level of importance.

  1. Screw the “skinny fat” or ecto and any other classification of body types. You are unique and there are far too many other factors at play to be boxed into an abitrary classification.

  2. How much protein consumed is secondary to how much overall calories consumed per day and progression in strength in the gym. You don’t eat enough to gain weight and don’t give the muscle to grow through progressive resistance, you won’t grow.

  3. How much protein your body can use is individual. The general rule of thumb is around 1g/lb of bodyweight. I don’t need more than that per day unless I am assisted. Others go up to 1.5g/lb of bodyweight when natural. At your age and level, i would suggest you stick with 1g/lb as your progress will be rapid as long as you eat and train properly.

Now, protein aside, I’m a rather concerned about your routine. What are your goals? Why not use a normal strength routine? [/quote]

My goal is to look like hulk but that takes years of lifting so for now i just try to get familiar with the movements and stick to compoun movements. I train at home so I work with what I have routines usually include excersise I cant perform due to lack of equiment.


#9

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
My question is the more protein consumed by an individual the better his gains? or is past a certain limit unnecessary[/quote]
Yes, there’s definitely a point of diminishing returns with protein intake. The good news is that, basically, you have to try to eat too much to come close to “too much”.

A general rule of thumb for guys looking to build muscle is to shoot for 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Some guys will bump that up to 1.5, or sometimes 2 grams per pound in the most dedicated bulking phases. In your case, as a young dude who has a lot of room to fill out, you’ll be fine shooting for the higher end as long as your training is of decent intensity and volume.

Past that level of intake, you’re not really going to get an extra benefit (without some “anabolic support”) and you run the risk of “teaching” your body to use protein for fuel since it would be so abundant in the diet (especially since carbs and fat can be protein-sparing anyway).

For most people, eating too little protein is much more likely than eating too much, but either extreme can have negative effects. Of course, total calories, fat, and carb intake are also factors.

I didn’t run the exact numbers, but if that’s even 3,000 calories, I’d be surprised. Are you gaining bodyweight with this type of eating? At your height and weight, I’d expect you to need more, but if you are gaining consistently and significantly, then that’s that.

You need egg whites like I need an extra appendix. There’s no purpose. Eat whole eggs.

Why?

Even if you only have 45 minutes for a training session (which is flat-out incorrect unless you’re working 40 hours a week in addition to school), I’d consider a different approach. Most especially one that works your legs, beanpole. And I say that as a comrade over-6-footer. Leg training sucks, but do it anyway.[/quote]

Im not concerned about calories my diet has been shit my whole life so just by eating protein my body composition has improved drastically. Protein keeps me energized, carbs specifaclly make me feel like shit. Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats.


#10

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?


#11

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs.


#12

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??


#13

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??[/quote]

From what I read yes.


#14

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??[/quote]

From what I read yes. [/quote]

And when you’re at that point, you will start “bulking”?


#15

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??[/quote]

From what I read yes. [/quote]

Most people will be able to see a general abdominal shape at 15% minimum. I am around 20% by my best guess and some calipers and can see my abs pretty well when they are tight.

Read what CS says under the chart also. Body fat is mostly an arbitrary number so don’t really base anything off of it. Worrying about bodyfat is pretty pointless. Use the scale and take pictures. Pictures work better than the mirror because sometimes we don’t really realize how far we have come because the changes have been gradual.


#16

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??[/quote]

From what I read yes. [/quote]

I believe I’m about 10 percent in my avatar. For reference.


#17

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??[/quote]

From what I read yes. [/quote]

And when you’re at that point, you will start “bulking”?[/quote]

I wouldnt say “bulking” just eating alot 95% clean and lifting heavy things and see what comes of it


#18

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??[/quote]

From what I read yes. [/quote]

And when you’re at that point, you will start “bulking”?[/quote]

Not really bulking I just will eat alot of meat,chicken, fish and as much protain as I can get my hands on and include alot more volume


#19

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??[/quote]

From what I read yes. [/quote]

Most people will be able to see a general abdominal shape at 15% minimum. I am around 20% by my best guess and some calipers and can see my abs pretty well when they are tight.

Read what CS says under the chart also. Body fat is mostly an arbitrary number so don’t really base anything off of it. Worrying about bodyfat is pretty pointless. Use the scale and take pictures. Pictures work better than the mirror because sometimes we don’t really realize how far we have come because the changes have been gradual. [/quote]

Whoa thats a wake up call Im alot higher then I though if thats accurate Im close to 20%


#20

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
And when you’re at that point, you will start “bulking”?[/quote]

Not really bulking I just will eat alot of meat,chicken, fish and as much protain as I can get my hands on and include alot more volume [/quote]

Three questions:

  1. why aren’t you doing those things now?
  2. why will you start doing those things then?
  3. what do you expect to happen when you do that?

I’m trying to understand your reasoning.