T Nation

Minutemen

What is eveyone’s opinion on the Minutemen currently patrolling in the Southwest?

Good idea, Bad idea? Are they doing what the Border Patrol should be doing or should they just get out of the way?

Thoughts?

[quote]hedo wrote:
What is eveyone’s opinion on the Minutemen currently patrolling in the Southwest?

Good idea, Bad idea? Are they doing what the Border Patrol should be doing or should they just get out of the way?

Thoughts?
[/quote]

I think it is a political statement and that they need to get out of the way. I think the whole “immigrant issue” has been blown out of proportion in terms of any real damage. I don’t see many other races willing to work the shifts or do the labor that many of these people do when they cross over. If you ever notice the guys who clean up stores overnight after they close, I am sure many fall into that category (though not all). Are we really saying that there are tons of people waiting on these jobs and illegal immigrants are stealing them all? It is political and I stopped trusting politicians a long time ago.

I saw a small blurb about this on the news. They are a kind of vigilante border patrol group. I think it is a bad idea let the professionals handle it.

When you get these pseudo law enforcement types it attracts a lot of bigoted or racist types and its a time bomb for some ugly incedent that will end up doing away with it anyway.

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
When you get these pseudo law enforcement types it attracts a lot of bigoted or racist types and its a time bomb for some ugly incedent that will end up doing away with it anyway.[/quote]

Agreed. This is just begging for trouble, I think.

They don’t carry guns, and if they see anyone, they call the boarder patrol. They don’t take law into their own hands.

But they are a small group, and I think people get the impression they are larger then they really are. But then again I see this all the time in the media.

Now as far as illegal immigrants, sorry but they need to follow the rules to get here. I read that 95% of the arrest warrants for murder in LA are for illegal immigrants.

Too many people think only of the poor families, but this is a big route for the drug trade. Also the idea of Mexico giving out DVD’s that teach people how to get across the boarder? Bullshit. They keep a real tight control over their south border, but do not respect ours.

Yes we should have a guest worker program. I do not disparage any legal immigration. But if a person is going to ignore the laws to come here, how do you expect them to respect any of our laws.

Not one person here would think it is ok for a homeless person to decide that it was ok to come into their house and just live there without permission. You would kick their ass, or call the cops.

The problem is multifaceted. If anything happens to them, they most often will not go to the cops. Many have fake social security cards, and believe it or not the government figures it into their budget as money they get and don’t have to pay back.

I don’t care if we have the exact same number of people coming here, it should just be done legally.

They’re only doing what the feds won’t. If they are not physically hurting anyone, or killing anyone, I think it’s a great idea. Wouldn’t you do the same thing to protect your property? Especilly if the government, who is suppoese to protect it’s borders, looks the other way in exchange for a few votes?

I think the whole border situation is out of control, and if a few dedicated citizens decide to do what the gov’t won’t then more power to them.

Did I just speak out aginst Bush? Prepare for the apocalypse.

Well, if they’re not armed and just call the police when appropriate, I guess that’s different. It’s kinda like a neighborhood watch then. My bad.

If they are just acting as watchdogs, I have no problem with it. We all have a duty - it’s about the equivalent of a national neighborhood watch.

But they should only watch and report. Anything beyond that would turn into lynch mob justice, and illegal immigrants don’t deserve to be harmed - merely put behind the border and encouraged to obtain citizenship lawfully.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
illegal immigrants don’t deserve to be harmed - merely put behind the border and encouraged to obtain citizenship lawfully.[/quote]

I hope most people think like this.

hot button issue. I need to stay out of it.

When my ancestors got here–the Scots/Irish ones, not the Mayflower ones–they faced tough times and prejudice. But they worked hard and assimilated.

The current crowd of illegals don’t want to become Americans, they only want the bennies.
And the stupid politicians (even GWB on this one) are lining up to hand them more–at my expense.
Shit, I’m a low-middle class white male. I can’t get shit.
Meanwhile, illegal immigrants are being given in state tuition costs at Mass. colleges.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
illegal immigrants don’t deserve to be harmed - merely put behind the border and encouraged to obtain citizenship lawfully.

I hope most people think like this. [/quote]

no one deserves to be harmed, on the other hand at some point the politicians have shown they’re not going to take any action, so maybe it’s past time the general population does.
But we start by tossing the dumb ass pols, to send a message.
If it still doesn’t work, then we move to fortify the borders–one way or another.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
But they should only watch and report. Anything beyond that would turn into lynch mob justice, and illegal immigrants don’t deserve to be harmed - merely put behind the border and encouraged to obtain citizenship lawfully.[/quote]

I would treat them just like I would treat anyone else. I have a lethal right to protect my property, and regardless of nationality - if I percieve that my life is in danger, somebody’s dying.

These folks aren’t lining up single file when they cross. They are like an infestation of roaches. That may sound racist - but I don’t really care.

It is a very disturbing feeling - you feel violated. It’s hard to explain. All I can say is - unless you have experienced a border infestation - you can’t possibly know enough about the situation to make the rules.

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:

Shit, I’m a low-middle class white male. I can’t get shit.[/quote]

Why are you a conservative?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I would treat them just like I would treat anyone else. I have a lethal right to protect my property, and regardless of nationality - if I percieve that my life is in danger, somebody’s dying.[/quote]

The border between Mexico and the US is YOUR property?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The border between Mexico and the US is YOUR property?[/quote]

You don’t seem to comprehend the border area very well, Prof. I don’t own any land in Arizona, or any border state.

The border’s not a strip of land with vegas style lights blinking 24-hours a day to identify Mexico from the U.S.

The border is privately held land with a creek running rhrough it. Sometimes it has water, sometimes it don’t. In Arizona, they don’t even have a river - kinda like Canada.

Do you understand it now? That as a landowner whose land happens to butt up against Mexico you have a right to defend the land that you do own? To answer what was meant to be a sarcastic question - Yes landowners do own the border between the U.S. and Mexico and should have the right to protect it.

What was the point of your question?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:

Shit, I’m a low-middle class white male. I can’t get shit.

Why are you a conservative?[/quote]

Too much pride to be a liberal.
That and I can’t stand people whining all the time.
I’ve got lib friends–in fact one of my very best friends–and I see how bitter and whiny he is about politics and I hate it.
Besides, I believe in certain things.

Also, I’m not strictly a conservative.
I’m more libertarian. I do believe there are some clear cut right and wrong issues though.
So I’m a consertarian.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I would treat them just like I would treat anyone else. I have a lethal right to protect my property, and regardless of nationality - if I percieve that my life is in danger, somebody’s dying.

The border between Mexico and the US is YOUR property?[/quote]

in a broad sense, it’s all of our property.

If you already have a mind set where these people are comparable to an infestation of cockroaches, and you get a likeminded group of invididuals, and you don’t see the potential for violence then you’re blind.

Also, I’m sure there not going to be armed, I’m sure there going to follow the rules to a T. You know some of these good ol boys are going to be packin artillery and will find a reason to use it.

I’m Latino and I agree it’s a problem that needs a solution, but I don’t think that is it. I don’t claim to know all the complexities of it, but I have often wondered what could be done to get Mexico’s economy to where the people wouldn’t want or need to leave.

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
If you already have a mind set where these people are comparable to an infestation of cockroaches, and you get a likeminded group of invididuals, and you don’t see the potential for violence then you’re blind.

Can’t argue with that.

Also, I’m sure there not going to be armed, I’m sure there going to follow the rules to a T. You know some of these good ol boys are going to be packin artillery and will find a reason to use it.

I’m Latino and I agree it’s a problem that needs a solution, but I don’t think that is it. I don’t claim to know all the complexities of it, but I have often wondered what could be done to get Mexico’s economy to where the people wouldn’t want or need to leave. [/quote]

Despite all this hysteria over illegal immigration, immigrants bring a lot more to the table economically than they take off it. Some industries depend on illegal immigrants to survive. Is it wrong for them to get more benefits in this country than American citizens? Of course. But I don’t understand why immigration is a hot-button issue. I sure as hell don’t fear some kind of creeping Mexican “invasion,” like the Pat Buchanan and Bill Lind crowd do.

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I would treat them just like I would treat anyone else. I have a lethal right to protect my property, and regardless of nationality - if I percieve that my life is in danger, somebody’s dying.

The border between Mexico and the US is YOUR property?

in a broad sense, it’s all of our property.[/quote]

Too broad to act as if it is your “right” to protect it through the use of fire arms.