Minor Deficit + More Lifting = Transformation?

I work with a guy who is basically obese. He is obese, he is a big guy tho, but still too fat.
Anyways, I’ve taken him lifting with me, and shown him how the game works, he likes it alot, and wants to make a serious transformation in himself.

I calculated he is going to have to burn an excess of 350,000 calories in order to reach 200 lbs.
We talked and he said he’s going to do a 1,300 calorie diet and get it out of the way in like 6 months or something.

It’s strange but a diet of 1,300 calories didn’t actually look that sparse on paper.

Anyways, I am not a dietician or a nutritionist, I can only show the guy how to do a good work out and hold his hand through it the first couple times.

But…

To me it seems like, 1,300 calories will basically waste his time lifting. I know from personal experience that trying to build muscle and cut fat is difficult, however, cutting fat through lifting weights and getting very few calories is a waste of time.

Do you guys think sticking with a 1,300 calorie diet with an hour weight lifting, and then an hour and 1/2 of cardio, 4 days a week split is reasonable for fat loss, or is the weight lifting a waste of time?

Do you think he’d be better off, with a 1,700 calorie diet, with very intense lifting, and then running, and he’d actually gain muscle and lose fat in this period?

What do you think?

What’s really befuddling me, is if he burns x amount of calories weightlifting, and it goes into deficit, but is in a fat burning mode (through calorie deficit and low carb diet) will he litterally convert his fat stores into the material he needs for muscle recovery and gain?

I might sound like a fool here but I’m just trying to help this go out and learn something for myself.

don’t try to “help” him. Send him to someone who is obviously more qualified and prepared to work with such an individual.

You are not going about this the right way.

Well ya, my idea is not to design his diet for him or anything like that. I’m more just wondering for my own knowledge.

He will not stick to a 1300 calorie diet for 6 months (or even 6 weeks for that matter), so no need to worry.

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
It’s strange but a diet of 1,300 calories didn’t actually look that sparse on paper.
[/quote]

Maybe if its under the heading of breakfast.

Several things about your plan violate very basic rules of exercise and diet prescription.

If you value your friend’s health, find a certified, knowledgeable trainer and nutritionist.

I lost 100kg and stuck to probably 1500cals or less for a 12 months. Not a cheat, not a nothing. It depends on motivation and the person’s will. I’ve done the Vdiet twice and people say its hard, I find it actually pretty easy to tell you the truth, maybe I’m different.

In any case if I was to do it again I wish I’d eaten more, more protein especially, and lifted weights more.

I’d say all you can do is help, you can’t walk the journey for him so don’t get too invested in it yourself. I’d say if you’re goign low cal then try low carb/keto as I foudn that easiest to stick too with low calories, plus he’s probably all fucked up insulin wise anyway so it might be a nice reset.

I think it’s retarded to write the guy off, though 1300 cals is low, but just don’t get invested in it yourself.

I’d say hit closer to 1700-1800 calories, godo protein and fats, then all colours of low sugar veges for carbs. Variety is the spice of life :slight_smile: Don’t go hard with the exercise to begin with, firstly it’ll be hard and he’ll choke on it, secondly it’ll sow that diet is where he’ll lose most of the weight, thirdly he’ll potentially hurt himself goign hard straight outta the gate and then have an excuse ot stop.

That’s my advice, good luck!

[quote]Several things about your plan violate very basic rules of exercise and diet prescription.

If you value your friend’s health, find a certified, knowledgeable trainer and nutritionist.[/quote]
What plan? The lifting routine? I haven’t suggested any plan to the guy, just took him lifting with me.

[quote]ozzyaaron wrote:
I lost 100kg [/quote]

Holy sh!t, nice work man. Fuck Jared from Subway, you da real deal in da house d0g.

1300cals for a grown man is asinine.

The calories in vs. calories out thing is horseshit. It just doesn’t work that way. If I drink one glass of orange juice a day (100) cals and change nothing else in my diet or life. I will NOT gain 10 pounds in a year .

My minimum amount of food to maintain my weight and the amount I need to eat to put on weigh are very very different. If I eat an additional 10,000 cals this week I’ll gain weight if I do the same but spread it out over a year I will not. How much you need to drop or add cals to change your weight also depends on the person.

I am not into countin cals have the dude eat meat, veggies and a few peaces of fruit a day eat nothing else and just drink water and lift and he will lose plenty of fat.

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Several things about your plan violate very basic rules of exercise and diet prescription.

If you value your friend’s health, find a certified, knowledgeable trainer and nutritionist.[/quote]
What plan? The lifting routine? I haven’t suggested any plan to the guy, just took him lifting with me.[/quote]

The plan I am referring to is your diet plan.

[quote]Xab wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Several things about your plan violate very basic rules of exercise and diet prescription.

If you value your friend’s health, find a certified, knowledgeable trainer and nutritionist.[/quote]
What plan? The lifting routine? I haven’t suggested any plan to the guy, just took him lifting with me.[/quote]

The plan I am referring to is your diet plan. [/quote]
Ah. He was the guy who wanted to do a 1,300 cal diet. I think it is dumb. It is not my suggesstion, I simply showed him how to calculate the caloric defecit he’ll need to make in order to lose x amount of weight.

I told him he should shoot for 1,700 and just up his lifting, but should really just see a nutritionist if he’s serious.

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Xab wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Several things about your plan violate very basic rules of exercise and diet prescription.

If you value your friend’s health, find a certified, knowledgeable trainer and nutritionist.[/quote]
What plan? The lifting routine? I haven’t suggested any plan to the guy, just took him lifting with me.[/quote]

The plan I am referring to is your diet plan. [/quote]
Ah. He was the guy who wanted to do a 1,300 cal diet. I think it is dumb. It is not my suggesstion, I simply showed him how to calculate the caloric defecit he’ll need to make in order to lose x amount of weight.[/quote]

The math in your first post, if done correctly, means that your friend is approximately 300lbs. No matter his height, % body fat, or previous training experience, a person that huge is going to burn at least 3000 kcals a day in a normal sedentary lifestyle. Add in physical activity, and it goes up a lot more since he’s so heavy, and he’s new to it.

With your friend being so huge, I think starting at 3000 kcals a day would be a good start, then reassess his progress after two weeks. There’s just no way a guy that big can subsist on 1300 kcals a day.

If he drops to that intake and stays there his metabolism is going to adapt to that and slow down making him feel like awful in the process. If you look at most diets they usually try to make small changes over a fairly long period of time in order to preserve a high metabolic rate not to mention the health of the of the person involved.

Since he is obese it’s probably best to just get him accustomed to a high amount of activity (cardio on most days and some weights) and eating clean foods, then if he wants to take it further he can start messing with the numbers (macro nutrient counts, not calories) but it doesn’t seem like he needs to do anything like this yet.

Getting a competent trainer would definitely help.

[quote]rcfromdb wrote:
1300cals for a grown man is asinine. [/quote]

Agreed. I’m eating more than that daily now and I’ve gone from 130 to 120 in the past three weeks.

If he can starve himself for six months he should be able to just stop eating like a goddamn pig for six months.

Rather than be too focused on details, perhaps the best way you could your friend is by persuading him in two viewpoint things:

First, fat loss is not an all or nothing, achieve-the-planned-rate-or-it’s-failure thing. It’s not the case that if he doesn’t drop weight and fat at a planned outstanding rate that then he’s failed and might as well consider the plan blown.

If he loses “just” 5 lb in a month out of not being so strict as he has in mind, that’s not failure. Five lb per month is great. It really adds up on itself: in a year it’s 60 lb, which is tremendously significant.

It sounds as if he might have himself set up with the psychology that he has this ambitious plan and then when human weakness results in falling short could write the whole thing off. This has happened to countless people. It’s purely a viewpoint problem.

And second, there is nothing more important about the time point 6 months from now than the time 1 year from now, one year six months from now, three years from now, etc. Those days will come and will be just as real as today, and there will be nothing more “real” about the six month time point unless perhaps it is to be looking better for a wedding or something.

It’s fine to have a time goal but to place too much importance on it is a mistake. His weight and condition during 2011, 2012 etc add up to being a whole lot more important than whether he dropped all 100 lb by the six month point or dropped “only” 30 lb by that point.

This ties in with the first viewpoint change and is why a lesser but highly useful rate of loss should not be looked at as failure in the slightest. It is a success to lose 5 lb in a month (unless falling short for a contest or something like that) regardless that the plan had been for 17 lb. Less of a success, yes, but still a very good and important success.

1300 calories is obscenely low for almost any man. I wouldn’t expect a skinny guy to eat that little. Try about 1000 calories more than that.

Are you guys seeing what I am seeing?

Potentially a 300 lb guy, exercising for an HOUR AND A HALF on top of WEIGHT LIFTING in the same day on 1300 calories?

He will not be able to do that. If he is doing that stuff properly he will probably be burning twice that just in exercise and that’s not even including his how much his base metabolic rate accounts for. If he tries that he will get to a point where he will just go crazy on a meal and ingest like 10,000 calories. lol.

At LEAST 3000 calories I would say of good quality food, no high sugar processed carbs. I would say go with some quality carbs anyways with all of that exercise because with all of that he will suffer without any carbs IMO.

At that weight there will be no way for him to quickly get out of his position, he needs to change his whole lifestyle DRAMATICALLY.

-my 2cents

Personally, I wouldn’t even focus on his diet or what he eats. Let him eat whatever he wants of however much he wants, just focus on the weightlifting/exercising for now. Have him prove to you and to himself that he can stick with simply working out for a set period of time, without altering any other areas of his life. If he has been living fairly sedentary, just adding more and more physical activity should be enough to jump start a body transformation without worrying about calories and portions and dieting.

Basically, if he changes too many things in his life too quickly, the more likely he is to fail. The fewer drastic changes to his lifestyle he makes at once, the more likely he will succeed. Start with consistent training – and it probably doesn’t even matter much what it is right now.

After that, make simple, easy-to-follow changes to his diet. Stuff like eliminating soda or adding one serving of fruit per day. Baby steps.