Apparently a decade’s worth of experience in less years working with and in management of various industries, a whole host of letters after my name, and countless hours of examination of both real and theoretical examples means nothing now, because one buy built a company.
Sky, do you still own and operate this company?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I agree Skyz I think when you build a business from the ground up , when you’re responsible for everything you have a different perspective . IMO you will never get Beans to realize that not all lessons can be learned in school .
[/quote]
Has nothing to do with school. It’s simple economics and how businesses stay successful.
You raise minimum wage, a few things HAVE to happen, especially in a small business:
One of these will have to happen until the market catches up
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I agree Skyz I think when you build a business from the ground up , when you’re responsible for everything you have a different perspective . IMO you will never get Beans to realize that not all lessons can be learned in school .
[/quote]
Has nothing to do with school. It’s simple economics and how businesses stay successful.
You raise minimum wage, a few things HAVE to happen, especially in a small business:
One of these will have to happen until the market catches up[/quote]
When the price of petro go up , when the price of cotton goes up , when the price of electricity goes up, Fuck when the price of any thing goes up it has an effect on other aspects of the economy . The only aspect that has not gone up is the price of labor.
As far as people can not run a business if they have to pay more for some aspect , then that is fine it will leave room for a business than knows how to run a business
Prices go up that is a fact of life
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
The only aspect that has not gone up is the price of labor.
[/quote]
Utter bullshit.
People always want more. More paid time off, more paternity benefits, more health insurance, more 401k match, more computer screens, gas car, expense account, mother’s hours, firm lunches, Christmas parties, flex time, ipads, new technology, etc, etc, etc.
Health Insurance alone has eaten up more raises than I can shake a stick at.
Add in government mandated overhead increases and suddenly you realize you are spending a shit ton more for the same hour of labor you were before, without even getting to the pay increase for the employee.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Apparently a decade’s worth of experience in less years working with and in management of various industries, a whole host of letters after my name, and countless hours of examination of both real and theoretical examples means nothing now, because one buy built a company.
Sky, do you still own and operate this company?[/quote]
Maybe there is some misunderstanding. I’m not attacking your knowledge, experience, or anything else. Given other things you’ve shared, I’d be willing to bet you are easily at the top of your profession in knowledge, skill and just outright drive. Hell, that volley of posts a while back just about broke my brain, but you guys seemed like you were playing hackey-sack with those division of ROI concepts or what ever they were.
And no, no longer involved with it. The partner was more interested in burying his nose in piles of coke and there are only so many good years to be had in that business. I had a good 10 year run with no major injuries and walked away with all of the parts I was born with.
I didn’t intend to sound condescending either, but can see how I did.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
And no, no longer involved with it. The partner was more interested in burying his nose in piles of coke and there are only so many good years to be had in that business. I had a good 10 year run with no major injuries and walked away with all of the parts I was born with.
[/quote]
So let’s assume you were.
And let’s assume you had 10 guys working for you. 3 greenhorns that made the min of $10. 4 guys in their 2nd year whom were shaping out to be good workers all making $13, and 3 guys who have been with you forever and make between $20-$30.
Now let’s assume the government calls you on the phone and says you have to now pay the 3 greenhorns $13 an hour.
Here are my questions:
a) What do you do?
b) What do you think the four 2nd year guys are going to think?
c) What do you think about the fact you now have to pay the greenhorns what experienced people are worth?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I didn’t intend to sound condescending either, but can see how I did.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
And no, no longer involved with it. The partner was more interested in burying his nose in piles of coke and there are only so many good years to be had in that business. I had a good 10 year run with no major injuries and walked away with all of the parts I was born with.
[/quote]
So let’s assume you were.
And let’s assume you had 10 guys working for you. 3 greenhorns that made the min of $10. 4 guys in their 2nd year whom were shaping out to be good workers all making $13, and 3 guys who have been with you forever and make between $20-$30.
Now let’s assume the government calls you on the phone and says you have to now pay the 3 greenhorns $13 an hour.
Here are my questions:
a) What do you do?
b) What do you think the four 2nd year guys are going to think?
c) What do you think about the fact you now have to pay the greenhorns what experienced people are worth?[/quote]
you increase your prices , every one is in the same boat , every one has to [pay the same wages
I seriously doubt some one would be making $20 to $30 an hour either unless of course you are Union 
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I didn’t intend to sound condescending either, but can see how I did.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
And no, no longer involved with it. The partner was more interested in burying his nose in piles of coke and there are only so many good years to be had in that business. I had a good 10 year run with no major injuries and walked away with all of the parts I was born with.
[/quote]
So let’s assume you were.
And let’s assume you had 10 guys working for you. 3 greenhorns that made the min of $10. 4 guys in their 2nd year whom were shaping out to be good workers all making $13, and 3 guys who have been with you forever and make between $20-$30.
Now let’s assume the government calls you on the phone and says you have to now pay the 3 greenhorns $13 an hour.
Here are my questions:
a) What do you do?
b) What do you think the four 2nd year guys are going to think?
c) What do you think about the fact you now have to pay the greenhorns what experienced people are worth?[/quote]
a) Price will have to change. Processes will have to change too. It may cause a bit of a loss at first, but sometimes that is what happens when the gov. forces your hand. We’ve run into similar problems with increases of fuel taxes, regional sales taxes and mandated changes to equipment which affects their cost.
b) The four second year guys are going to be butt hurt. One will more than likely quit. The others will want a raise and might even get a token amount, but it’s going to include more responsibility.
c) Thats just what has to be done. Their value will either be brought up to cost or they will be cut loose.
Our MO was to keep the guys fed, but not fat. Part of that is finding the ones worth keeping and cutting the ones who aren’t. If they’re worth it, they get it, but if not they go, and fast.
I’ll never argue that increasing costs doesn’t cost jobs if in fact the people have risen to their own level of incompetence and can not provide adequate value. I just don’t know that that is the case in some circumstance.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Their value will either be brought up to cost or they will be cut loose.
Our MO was to keep the guys fed, but not fat. Part of that is finding the ones worth keeping and cutting the ones who aren’t. If they’re worth it, they get it, but if not they go, and fast.
[/quote]
Now, does this still happen without a government mandated wage?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I seriously doubt some one would be making $20 to $30 an hour either unless of course you are Union
[/quote]
I make a fuck load more than that and am not in a union.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I seriously doubt some one would be making $20 to $30 an hour either unless of course you are Union
[/quote]
I make a fuck load more than that and am not in a union.
[/quote]
Best part is my wife is in a union and makes much less than I do, lol.
misconception is a misconception.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
you increase your prices , every one is in the same boat , every one has to [pay the same wages
[/quote]
And now your $13/hr is worth the same amount as your $10/Hr. Nothing changes.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I seriously doubt some one would be making $20 to $30 an hour either unless of course you are Union
[/quote]
I make a fuck load more than that and am not in a union.
[/quote]
Best part is my wife is in a union and makes much less than I do, lol.
misconception is a misconception.
[/quote]
I assume he means in the industry you and Sky are talking about, but am not sure.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Their value will either be brought up to cost or they will be cut loose.
Our MO was to keep the guys fed, but not fat. Part of that is finding the ones worth keeping and cutting the ones who aren’t. If they’re worth it, they get it, but if not they go, and fast.
[/quote]
Now, does this still happen without a government mandated wage?[/quote]
Universally or individually?
I can’t speak for other places, but we paid above minimum anyways.
Now if the gov. instituted a prevailing wage policy across all professions, scaled for time and all of that- Complete devastation of virtually all small businesses.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Their value will either be brought up to cost or they will be cut loose.
Our MO was to keep the guys fed, but not fat. Part of that is finding the ones worth keeping and cutting the ones who aren’t. If they’re worth it, they get it, but if not they go, and fast.
[/quote]
Now, does this still happen without a government mandated wage?[/quote]
Universally or individually?
[/quote]
Both.
Over a long enough timeline it happens universally.
However you never stop having low skilled labor, I repeat it for the pitt’s of the world, mankind will never rid itself of the need for low skilled labor. The only thing that will change is what is or isn’t skilled as time passes.
We will always have poor people, they will always be poorer than rich people, we’ll always have rich people.
This is never going to change. It has been this way since the dawn of time, it is true in nature and true to us too. You can’t fight the rules of nature and win…
The sapling with the best soil, abundant water and most sunlight will grow to its potential.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Their value will either be brought up to cost or they will be cut loose.
Our MO was to keep the guys fed, but not fat. Part of that is finding the ones worth keeping and cutting the ones who aren’t. If they’re worth it, they get it, but if not they go, and fast.
[/quote]
Now, does this still happen without a government mandated wage?[/quote]
Universally or individually?
[/quote]
Both.
Over a long enough timeline it happens universally.
However you never stop having low skilled labor, I repeat it for the pitt’s of the world, mankind will never rid itself of the need for low skilled labor. The only thing that will change is what is or isn’t skilled as time passes.
We will always have poor people, they will always be poorer than rich people, we’ll always have rich people.
This is never going to change. It has been this way since the dawn of time, it is true in nature and true to us too. You can’t fight the rules of nature and win…
The sapling with the best soil, abundant water and most sunlight will grow to its potential. [/quote]
Truth. The scale just changes, but you still get a bell curve of purchasing power no matter what the scale is.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Apparently a decade’s worth of experience in less years working with and in management of various industries, a whole host of letters after my name, and countless hours of examination of both real and theoretical examples means nothing now, because one buy built a company.
Sky, do you still own and operate this company?[/quote]
Maybe there is some misunderstanding. I’m not attacking your knowledge, experience, or anything else
[/quote]
Don’t worry, beans was worked up about pittbull not you lol.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
The only aspect that has not gone up is the price of labor.
[/quote]
Utter bullshit.
People always want more. More paid time off, more paternity benefits, more health insurance, more 401k match, more computer screens, gas car, expense account, mother’s hours, firm lunches, Christmas parties, flex time, ipads, new technology, etc, etc, etc.
Health Insurance alone has eaten up more raises than I can shake a stick at.
Add in government mandated overhead increases and suddenly you realize you are spending a shit ton more for the same hour of labor you were before, without even getting to the pay increase for the employee. [/quote]
You’re absolutely right (in other news, astronomers know more about stars than the average man). Further lets look at the increase in benefits, vacation time, sick time, etc.
So, in short, even if the average wage had stayed 100% with inflation rises, you would still net more because you’re getting more vacation, more benefits, better retirement, and all the rest on the national scale. In fact, even if wages had marginally stagnated the overall net benefit would probably still be more than keeping pace with inflation.
But wait, there’s more…
Average wage has in fact increased, and therefore so has pittbull’s beloved “price of labor”. Average wage index has increased from 16.8K in 1986 to 44.3K in 2012. Average inflation in the same time period is ~ 3% while the average wage increase was greater than the inflation rate over this period of time.
To be more precise, from the period in time 1985-2012 inflation has increased 113% and the average wage increase is… 264%.
Oh wow, would you look at that.
More on the pay max- [quote]
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) – Taxpayers are on track to net $179 billion from federally controlled mortgage buyers Fannie Mae (FNMA) and Freddie Mac (FMCC) by the end of fiscal 2024, according to recently released White House budget documents. Fannie and Freddie must send all of their profits to the U.S. Treasury Department because of the terms of a government bailout agreement. The once-flailing firms, which started receiving federal bailout funds in 2008, returned to profit in the last two years, thanks to a rebounding housing market. Including an upcoming payment to Treasury, both firms will have sent more to the government than was provided in bailout funds. Taxpayers would net $179 billion only if terms of the bailout agreement, which has bred investor lawsuits, are unchanged. U.S. lawmakers are working on legislation to reform Fannie and Freddie, but progress may take some time.
-Ruth Mantell; 415-439-6400; AskNewswires@dowjones.com
[/quote]
Granted, as a country, we sneeze and that much money disappears, but it’s something none the less.
On growth I’ve doubled my investment in about 10 months. Too bad it was just chump change.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I seriously doubt some one would be making $20 to $30 an hour either unless of course you are Union
[/quote]
I make a fuck load more than that and am not in a union.
[/quote]
I have made a fuck load more than that when I was self employed
Knowing the tax code pays well , I am sure
Now I am not Union but I work for a Contractor that works for a Union Shop and the Union stipulates I must be paid Union Scale (THANK YOU VERY MUCH:)