T Nation

Minimum Amount of Carbs?

How many carbs are required for recovery? I am on a modified version of the V Diet. I have a Metabolic Drive Complete shake every morning and then go to the Low Carb Casein Metabolic Drive for the rest of the day.

On a workout day it is the same plan but with a Surge shake after the lifting session. At this point this does not seem to be enough carbs to recover for an every other day lifting session. My legs are still toasted!

Help me figure out the right amount of carbs to get this recovery process on the way! Of course the lack of carbs is the assumed cause of the slow recovery because when I am not dieting my recovery is very quick… Thanks for the help!

Solutions:
Sm. Ammount of Carbs w/ every shake( g.)?
More Carbs in the morning?

please list your protein intake, fruit and veggie intake, and healthy fat intake so we can give you a better answer. it is a good question, we just need a little more info to tweak the response to your situation.

Modified V Diet w/M Drive Breakfest:
Few Cheat Meals here and there… (Chicken, Unsalted/Unroasted Cashews, little hand fulls of pasta w/ protien shakes to aid in protein uptake in muscle)

No Fruits
No Veggies… I know but I just don’t like them! (Add Sissy Joke here…)
Weight 210 Lbs.

Goal: Stay in a low calorie state while being able to workout with full intensity. So far my only downfall has been horrible recovery!!! Squats cost me 2+ days of recovery.

Workout Day (Before cheat meals)
Cal Pro Car Fib Fat Sat.Fat
1594 226 101 24 18.5 6.5

Non Workout Day (Before cheat meals)
Cal Pro Car Fib Fat Sat.Fat
1490 241 63 28 18 5.5

Dude, it’s the freaking V-diet…did you think it was going to be easy or that you would be making gains from it?

If I were you, if you feel like you can’t recover, I would lower your volume instead of tweaking the diet.

What does your workout look like currently?

[quote]CrvtWanabe wrote:
How many carbs are required for recovery? I am on a modified version of the V Diet. I have a Metabolic Drive Complete shake every morning and then go to the Low Carb Casein Metabolic Drive for the rest of the day.

On a workout day it is the same plan but with a Surge shake after the lifting session. At this point this does not seem to be enough carbs to recover for an every other day lifting session. My legs are still toasted!

Help me figure out the right amount of carbs to get this recovery process on the way! Of course the lack of carbs is the assumed cause of the slow recovery because when I am not dieting my recovery is very quick… Thanks for the help!

Solutions:
Sm. Ammount of Carbs w/ every shake( g.)?
More Carbs in the morning?[/quote]

[quote]CrvtWanabe wrote:
Modified V Diet w/M Drive Breakfest:
Few Cheat Meals here and there…[/quote]

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt with the Metabolic Drive Complete, but now you are saying you are having cheat meals here and there? You are not even close to doing the v-diet, and by giving in and having cheat meals, you are missing out on one of the most beneficial aspects of the diet IMO, which is that it changes the types of foods you do crave.

[quote]phatmike wrote:
Dude, it’s the freaking V-diet…did you think it was going to be easy or that you would be making gains from it?

If I were you, if you feel like you can’t recover, I would lower your volume instead of tweaking the diet.

What does your workout look like currently?

[/quote]

Well its no way shape or form the V-diet its a bastard child. Id do the darn thing or not.

With the added crabs, meals etc you should be getting Plenty to recover if fat loss is the goal. The amount of carbs needed is relative to the diet and goals

Phill

There is nothing wrong with the V Diet but I want to train at full intensity and eat a little. I tryed the V Diet for 3 weeks with no cheat in between so its not that I can’t do it, its just that I want to train hard and build muscle while being in a calorie deficit and eat some fat up of my body. If I need to bump any macro nutrients up just let me know. I am trying to get some advice from people with far more experience then my self, so lets just say this is a custom diet that I am trying to form up. It has a lot of composition changing protein but I am trying to keep the carbs down to a minimal. Is 100 carbs a day too low to drive in the 200+ grams of protein I am taking? Thanks for the advice!

[quote]CrvtWanabe wrote:
its just that I want to train hard and build muscle while being in a calorie deficit [/quote]

Wait, could you repeat that? It sounded like you wanted to gain mass while not eating enough to do so and that you are upset because you don’t have the energy…because you aren’t eating enough…because you want to gain muscle mass…by not eating enough…because you want to burn fat…and gain mass…by not eating enough.

Good luck with that.

Will all of the idiots who feel the need to talk about the possibilities of “gaining muscle while losing fat at the same time” please post pictures of themselves and how huge they got from approaching training this way below this post?

Thank you.

Set me straight then! Does making somebody look like an idiot make you feel bigger? Forget lifting this is way better! God I swear this is a place for some people to sit and bash others because someone doesn’t know what they know or agree with their ideology… I’m more so of the first case, one who is lacking knowledge and looking for help but I have seen some of the latter.

So help me out here! Is the amount of the carbohydrates too low? Is that why I am not getting all that protein to my muscle? Do I need my calories to help do that? OK, flame on! or out? Again thanks for relevant input!

Hes saying you want to build muscle you need food, intake be it carbs, protein, fat, intake making muscle is expensive and requires fuel

Phill

Thanks Phil! So there is no way to loose fat and gain muscle at the same time? There is no line you can ride of getting enough calories, carbs, proteins, and fats where you body can build LBM and lose fat at the same time? Thanks again!

[quote]CrvtWanabe wrote:
Set me straight then! Does making somebody look like an idiot make you feel bigger? Forget lifting this is way better! God I swear this is a place for some people to sit and bash others because someone doesn’t know what they know or agree with their ideology… I’m more so of the first case, one who is lacking knowledge and looking for help but I have seen some of the latter. [/quote]

There is an entire section for you in this forum! The Beginner’s section. Go there and read. And read. And read. Every question you could possibly think of has been answered there.

I don’t get why guys come into the “deep” water and then bitch when they start drowning. You belong in the shallow end - at least for now.

In six months, you might have progressed enough that you should worry about tweaking things and thus might have some specific questions. Until then, read more, train more, eat more, and post less.

[quote]CrvtWanabe wrote:
Set me straight then! [/quote]

I thought I did. Do what CLaw just wrote about and read. Just make sure you are training much more than you are sitting around reading and thinking about training.

[quote]CrvtWanabe wrote:
Does making somebody look like an idiot make you feel bigger?[/quote]

Oh, and just to respond to this comment, my response about “idiots” was directed at every potential newbie who was about to log into this thread and write, “But you CAN gain muscle and lose fat at the same time!!!” Meanwhile, if you were to ask any of these people just how spectacular and above average their gains in muscle mass actually were by approaching their training this way (barring those who were starting out obese and sedentary), you won’t get shit in response. You definitely won’t get any pictures of their outstanding progress and gains in muscle mass on a caloric deficit.

The bottom line is, you are a beginner. More specifically, few people who aren’t trying to sell you something but have made well above average (read as nowhere near “average” since that seems to also be a term that confuses people now into thinking we are talking about "average obese people who don’t lift) progress would ever attempt to tell someone to attempt gaining muscle mass anywhere near optimal levels while eating less than your body needs.

See after taking a little beating I get the information I need! Call me a newb and point me in the right direction, I have no issue with that, but you guys just have to relax.

Getting all these analogies about me being in the deep end of the pool is just BS. Thanks for setting me straight on bulking. It needs to be bulking or cutting but you cannot have it both ways… It just doesn’t work! (From what I have been told here)

Sorry for stirring the pot! Thanks for the input!

And you use far too many exclamation points! You look like you are yelling all the time!

Bodybuilders aren’t strong! Powerlifters are fat!

[/hehe]

Sorry, its all part of my enthusiasm but looks different on the net.