T Nation

milk Q


#1

will milk get the job done for having some casien before you sleep. anything wrong with too much milk (skim) besides the sugars are not good for me?


#2

If you cant tell by the post content, Im not expert...although I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

Milk would be an excellent source of the slow release casein protein, however, the sugars and sat fat content tend to scare people away. Remember P+C is ok, P+F is ok, but C+F = bad especially that late at night. It doesnt stop me though. I chug a shake before bed (8 oz 1% milk and 46 grams of protein in "another brand" protein powder).

I have also heard that milk can lead to a layer of "some" sub-q substance. I dont think it is fat, but more of like a water retention. Easy to get rid of, yet tends to hide muscle definition. Ive never really noticed it personally. Maybe someone with nutritional expertise can answer that.

-T


#3

I'd go with Cottage Cheese...or at worst yogurt (plain in the large tubs...not the individually sized cups which have added sugar). Milk is high in sodium, so it'll bloat you if you have a lot of it.


#4

Thumper,

But milk is P+C+F.

I wouldn't use store-bought pasturized stuff, though. Raw would be great. I recently found a local source for raw milk and am getting some this weekend! I'll let you guys know how it is.

I guess it all depends on the person, though. I suppose if you're carb-intolerant, then maybe milk at night wouldn't be good. Also, a cup of milk is 150 calories...pretty easy to get a lot of calories that way since you drink it.


#5

I think it was Mr. Roberts who said in an article a while back that even though milk's GI is low its Insulin index is through the roof. Therefore, it's not the best choice for bedtime nutrition. I tried it as a 3:00 a.m. snack during my last Mag-10 cycle and kept waking up about 2 hours later with my stomach totally caved in from hunger so I'd say there's something to the high Insulin index thing. IMO either cottage cheese or a casein-based protein powder w/ flax oil is much better. Also, the sodium in milk will definitely cause you to hold water subcutaneously. Of course, it goes away quickly after you cut back on the milk, but it's just something to keep in mind.


#6

Go see the thread about postworkout cereal. Shugart wrote about new low carb milk that sounds promising and might solve some of the problems with reg milk.


#7

wow. what a revalation. real food has sodium in it! Salt's good for you, bro.


#8

Milk will spike insulin levels like nothing else. Don't have it late at night.

Cottage cheese is a much better choice, but beware it too has a moderately high Insulin Index. It seems to be a better choice for a morning meal, especially if you mix it with a few tablespoons of ground flax seeds, and supplement with R-ALA, and drink Green Tea instead of your morning coffee - Green Tea will improve your insulin sensitivity and so will R-ALA, and so will the Omega-3 Fats in Flax Seeds.


#9

I wouldn't use R-ALA in the morning. Let your own insulin do its job in the morning.


#10

I never understood people's preference to take in some dairy for their last meal of the day. I'd consider milk to be out of the question (unless I trained late in the day, then it would be somewhat reasonable to have milk in some oatmeal or something, but I'd still steer clear). Even cottage cheese is somewhat less than ideal. Sure, casein is slow digesting, but so is good old fashioned meat. Some beef or chicken makes a much better pre-bed meal, IMO.


#11

Ah, you caught me. I wasnt thinking that foods didnt contain protein thus C+F should have equated to P+C+F, but unfortunately there are far too many C+F products on the market. Thanks for clarifying, even though I think it was implied. C+F anyway you go should be avoided unless its PWO.

My after workout (about 8:30pm) consists of 8 oz of milk 2 scoops of one protein powder with 46 proteins, 1 scoop of another powder with 13 protein, 150 calories, and about 30 carbs. I also have a chicken breast (~6 oz) with a slice of cheese and 100% whole wheat bread. I also consume about 10 grams of protein worth of turkey breast and slice of the same bread. sometimes I throw in a pasta if I feel I need the carbs. I usually eat a bowl of cereal about an hour afterwards. I likes my milk.


#12

ever since i began drinking milk every day again (past 3 weeks) my stomach had been a mess...im gonna give lactase a try, anyone have experience with it?


#13

i drove up to NH to get that carb countdown milk.. I wonder if anywhere else besides super walmarts carry it x.x to long a drive for just milk lol

anyways i got 'whole' and chocolate.. the chocolate it quite thick, like a milkshake(chocolate actually has less calories, less fat, less 'net' carbs than the whole) and quite yummy - like a milkshake also.. It does taste a damn lot like chocolate milk, there is a difference but i'd say very small.
Its called "dairy beverage" not milk lol but it is made with fat free milk, buttermilk, cream among other things so it probably isnt good for those with lactose problems.
The whole milk however is good, but doesnt taste as much like whole milk as say the chocolate milk did.. but it still is very good, this is great stuff for putting your grow into i'd say(i'd get 2% or fat free if thats what u planned on using it for the majority of the time & are worried about fats, as it probably wont make much a difference with grow in it). Im not a big milk drinker, havent been since i was quite small. but I do like using milk in alot of things (grow, oatmeal, etc etc)but have been avoiding it because of the 12c in regular milk so this stuff is great for me.

I hope places start stocking it soon, the closest super walmart is about 45min away :frowning:

Lauren


#14

I have also read that milk causes a large insulin response despite having a low GI. Does anyone now why? If this has been discussed in an article I'd love to be pointed in the right direction.

From my understanding the casein and whey in milk are digested separately, so maybe the whey is creating the insulin spike? Or is it just the lactose? If it's the lactose, would people with lactose intolerance experience a lower insulin response following milk consumption or would lower carb milk cause lower insulin response? Maybe I'm totally off but I'd like to hear what others have to say.

Lastly, does the insulin response only follow low fat milk consumption or does it occur with whole milk as well?

moo


#15

I get the impression I tend to kill threads with my posts?

Here?s an attempt to resurrect this one.

Does anyone have ANYTHING worthwhile to say regarding the questions I've asked above or am I just barking up the wrong tree?

If no one responds I promise not to bump this thread anymore.


#16

Bob, bumping threads is a respectable and legitimate pasttime. Always thought it would make a great handle, too! (grin)

Unfortunately, I just don't have an answer for you. Hopefully someone else smarter will stop on by.


#17

After sifting through all of the Anti-milk stuff written here, i almost quit drinking the stuff. Almost.

my 2 cents:

as i understand it,the big deal with milk sugars is that 1/2 of the carbs cant be used to replenish glycogen stores in muscle. ok, so just assume 1/2 of the carb calories are really fat calories (thats fine with me,as im always trying to gain weight).
assuming one is drinking a gallon of milk a day, i would probably stray away from whole and 2% and stick with skim , to avoid all of the saturated fats.
if, on the other hand, youre one of those people who get bloated/sick/feel like crap after you drink a few cups of milk :JUST DONT DO IT.
if, however, you are like me and have no gastro-intestinal problem with downing a gallon a day,then why not?
milk works great for me. i dont know very many others who dont have at least some problems drinking alot of milk. i guess i can thank my viking ancestors:)
also, if milk elicits this HUGE insulin response everyone seems to be talking about and you dont have a problem drinking it, then why the hell not use it for an apparrently great post-workout drink or for p+c meals (when alternating p+c with p+f; a template which offers theoretical advantages when bulking)?
look, im not hailing milk as this amazing wonderfood/post workout supp (no, its not GROW :slightly_smiling: but im not going to completely trash anything until ive tried it for myself. is milk really that much worse than 1/2 of the other crap we eat everyday? for me its not. i went on a bulking diet and drank alot of milk. about 1.5 gallons/daily. i went from a bodyweight of 195 to 208 in a little over 3 months. quality muscle all the way. no , it wasnt all from the magic of milk :). im just saying that for me, milk works. if i feel like really packing on the pounds (and i know some of you wouldnt pack on anything but POUNDS of fat, if you ate like i did) then a gallon of milk a day is an extra and easy 150gms of protein a day.
try drinking some milk (or eating meat, or sampling new kinds of protein powders or mrp's or eating a ton of eggs---its all food, folks.) and see how it works for you.
the point im trying to get across here is not to defend milk but to look at this whole game we are playing with a bit more objectivity.

train hard,
ryan b.


#18

i didnt really answer your original question of "milk before bed", did i.

i would have to say , that IF milk does make for a huge insulin response, then no, it wouldnt be a great choice before bed.

i would just go for a p+f , that consists of meat and fat, for a bedtime snack. i like some chicken breast smothered in fatty ranch dressing along with a handfull of fish oil caps.

pretty sure i addressed your other question in my previous post.

can anyone direct me to the articles concerning milks gigantic insulin response? im not being a smartass, i really wanna read the articles.

im out!


#19

While it's low on the GI, it is in fact quite high on the II. Do a google search for the insulin index. GI simply measure the rate of glucose entry into the bloodstream and NOT the actual insulin response. The GI assume that if a carbohydrate enters the blood quickly (high GI), the insulin response will be high and if a carbohydrate enters the blood slow (low GI), the insulin response will be low. This hasn't proven to be true across the board. Again, do a search for the Insulin Index.


#20

I'm not sure if i understood correctly but based on what a few of you said, milk would be good post-workout, that is if you weren't worried about getting fat and all?