Hi. I’ve been working out for about 9 months right now and had drunk one liter of milk as long as I’ve workout out as a post-training meal. I’ve made great gains doing this both in strength and in bodyweight (You can read my story here: Westside for Skinny Lakkhamu - Training Logs - Forums - T Nation), but I’m a bit skeptical. Milk is 20% whey and 80% casein, and most trainers swear by fast-digesting protein post-workout and a minority favors slow-digesting ones, such as beef. I’ve recently convinced my mom to allow me take whey protein, but what do you think would be better? Would whey accelerate my gains or the motto “If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it” should apply?
[quote]Lakkhamu wrote:
Hi. I’ve been working out for about 9 months right now and had drunk one liter of milk as long as I’ve workout out as a post-training meal. I’ve made great gains doing this both in strength and in bodyweight (You can read my story here: Westside for Skinny Lakkhamu - Training Logs - Forums - T Nation), but I’m a bit skeptical. Milk is 20% whey and 80% casein, and most trainers swear by fast-digesting protein post-workout and a minority favors slow-digesting ones, such as beef. I’ve recently convinced my mom to allow me take whey protein, but what do you think would be better? Would whey accelerate my gains or the motto “If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it” should apply?[/quote]
Try not to think like that, what matters is long term gains. Have faith in what you do and get big/strong from it. Make the most of what you have.
I got most of my gains from milk and cream LOL (didn’t listen to the “spike your insulin peri workout” stuff, or the “eat blah blah blah protein at such and such a time”).
I agree. I think what’s really most important is your total macros/calories throughout the day. As long as you hit your targets, you’re golden.
IMO, nutrient timing is not all it’s cracked up to be.
Bump the milk to chocolate milk ;] lol the good stuff.
Imo some people can’t handle peri nutrition. Ive been having a shake during work outs (50g pro 90 g fast carbs) and I can’t eat for about two hours after because the combination of training and digesting the shake makes me feel sick as a dog. I’ve only just realised lol. Imo I think overall calories and macros are more important.
[quote]rugggby wrote:
Imo some people can’t handle peri nutrition. Ive been having a shake during work outs (50g pro 90 g fast carbs) and I can’t eat for about two hours after because the combination of training and digesting the shake makes me feel sick as a dog. I’ve only just realised lol. Imo I think overall calories and macros are more important.[/quote]
Yeah I would never take in that much during training - your body’s main priority when it’s loaded with food is blood to the stomach/digestive system…kind of competes with the muscles. You may find energy/drive/focus improves by loading up on carbs/calories after training rather than shortly before/during it.
[quote]Lakkhamu wrote:
Hi. I’ve been working out for about 9 months right now and had drunk one liter of milk as long as I’ve workout out as a post-training meal. I’ve made great gains doing this both in strength and in bodyweight (You can read my story here: Westside for Skinny Lakkhamu - Training Logs - Forums - T Nation), but I’m a bit skeptical. Milk is 20% whey and 80% casein, and most trainers swear by fast-digesting protein post-workout and a minority favors slow-digesting ones, such as beef. I’ve recently convinced my mom to allow me take whey protein, but what do you think would be better? Would whey accelerate my gains or the motto “If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it” should apply?[/quote]
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
If you begin to stall, switch to whey.
Personally, I am able to handle quite a lot of protein and carbs peri-workout, as long as it’s in liquid form. Banana’s and occasionally some candy are tolerable, too.
Do both. Whey gives you the advantage of being able to more precisely target the timing of your nutrition, so a whey shake (made with milk not water, btw) post workout will let you flood your muscles with more protein right when they both need it most and can absorb it best.
All my shakes are made of 33% whey isolate, 33% egg white protein, 33% casein.
ALL OF THEM
Post Workout, Pre Bed, Snakc.
ALL
[quote]zraw wrote:
All my shakes are made of 33% whey isolate, 33% egg white protein, 33% casein.
ALL OF THEM
Post Workout, Pre Bed, Snakc.
ALL[/quote]
from TP, by any chance? Skip?
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
All my shakes are made of 33% whey isolate, 33% egg white protein, 33% casein.
ALL OF THEM
Post Workout, Pre Bed, Snakc.
ALL[/quote]
from TP, by any chance? Skip?[/quote]
Sounds like it.
[quote]Nate86 wrote:
nutrient timing is not all it’s cracked up to be.[/quote]
nutrient timing is all its cracked up’ed to be and one of the most important aspects of diet/training . i always have yogurt instead of milk only because of lactose issues . the only time i have whey and hi gi carbs is right before and right after training all other times protein comes from food sources and all carbs are mainly from veg’s and a little fruit.
I think it was John Berardi that said your habits are more important than having the perfect diet.
It’s better to get it 70% “right” most of the time, compared to 100% right some of the time.
If you can’t keep it up, do something that you can keep up with
[quote]lia67 wrote:
[quote]Nate86 wrote:
nutrient timing is not all it’s cracked up to be.[/quote]
nutrient timing is all its cracked up’ed to be and one of the most important aspects of diet/training . i always have yogurt instead of milk only because of lactose issues . the only time i have whey and hi gi carbs is right before and right after training all other times protein comes from food sources and all carbs are mainly from veg’s and a little fruit.[/quote]
Alright bro. Let me see the “dramatic” difference it made for your physique vs. you just eating regular food all the time and still getting the same macros.
You body is constantly going through the digestion process throughout the day, with many meals “overlapping” the pre/post workout period. The digestion of a meal can last for hours and hours (depending on the size and macros of the meal), making nutrient timing essentially useless.
The guys doing IF may be a different story, since their intake of “quickly” digesting proteins would be on an empty stomach. Even so, I personally don’t think it would make a whole lot of difference as long as they reached their overall macro goals by the end of the day.
Even on an empty stomach, whey still takes about an hour of digestion to reach peak amino acid levels in the body before dropping off again. Are you timing your whey protein shake an hour ahead of your workout to get the “best nutrient timing” for your body? An insulin “spike” (if you can really even call it that) isn’t going to decrease the amount of time your body needs to digest whey or any other food. And if you’ve eaten anything at all before your workout, forget about it. All that food is probably still being digested and its nutrients slowly steaming into your blood to deliver it where ever it needs to go.
There are are other biological functions of your body besides muscle building that require nutrients as well. Once food is digested, nutrients can reside in your bloodstream for hours, just waiting to be used in any number of biological functions. So in effect, any meal you consume within hours of working out could be considered “nutrient timing” since the nutrients from past meals are still floating around in your blood, just waiting to be snatched up for whatever the body needs them for at the time. Could be muscle building, sure. Could also be creation of new cells in the body. Or repairing damaged tissue. It’s gonna be used at some point during the day for whatever the body needs them for… and if it’s there’s an excess of nutrients available over a long period of time, it gets stored as body fat.
I know I’m gonna get some flak for this post, but I’m just not buying into the whole nutrient timing thing. I did the sugary carbs + whey protein pre/post workout for months and didn’t notice a lick of difference between doing that and just eating normal food (macros still the same at the end of the day). Sure, I made strength gains and my physique was improving, but I didn’t obtain mystical PRs on every lift or magically gain 18" arms like the supplement companies would have you believe.
No disrespect to you, either. If doing what you do works for you, then by all means do it.
[quote]Nate86 wrote:
[quote]lia67 wrote:
[quote]Nate86 wrote:
nutrient timing is not all it’s cracked up to be.[/quote]
nutrient timing is all its cracked up’ed to be and one of the most important aspects of diet/training . i always have yogurt instead of milk only because of lactose issues . the only time i have whey and hi gi carbs is right before and right after training all other times protein comes from food sources and all carbs are mainly from veg’s and a little fruit.[/quote]
Alright bro. Let me see the “dramatic” difference it made for your physique vs. you just eating regular food all the time and still getting the same macros.
You body is constantly going through the digestion process throughout the day, with many meals “overlapping” the pre/post workout period. The digestion of a meal can last for hours and hours (depending on the size and macros of the meal), making nutrient timing essentially useless.
The guys doing IF may be a different story, since their intake of “quickly” digesting proteins would be on an empty stomach. Even so, I personally don’t think it would make a whole lot of difference as long as they reached their overall macro goals by the end of the day.
Even on an empty stomach, whey still takes about an hour of digestion to reach peak amino acid levels in the body before dropping off again. Are you timing your whey protein shake an hour ahead of your workout to get the “best nutrient timing” for your body? An insulin “spike” (if you can really even call it that) isn’t going to decrease the amount of time your body needs to digest whey or any other food. And if you’ve eaten anything at all before your workout, forget about it. All that food is probably still being digested and its nutrients slowly steaming into your blood to deliver it where ever it needs to go.
There are are other biological functions of your body besides muscle building that require nutrients as well. Once food is digested, nutrients can reside in your bloodstream for hours, just waiting to be used in any number of biological functions. So in effect, any meal you consume within hours of working out could be considered “nutrient timing” since the nutrients from past meals are still floating around in your blood, just waiting to be snatched up for whatever the body needs them for at the time. Could be muscle building, sure. Could also be creation of new cells in the body. Or repairing damaged tissue. It’s gonna be used at some point during the day for whatever the body needs them for… and if it’s there’s an excess of nutrients available over a long period of time, it gets stored as body fat.
I know I’m gonna get some flak for this post, but I’m just not buying into the whole nutrient timing thing. I did the sugary carbs + whey protein pre/post workout for months and didn’t notice a lick of difference between doing that and just eating normal food (macros still the same at the end of the day). Sure, I made strength gains and my physique was improving, but I didn’t obtain mystical PRs on every lift or magically gain 18" arms like the supplement companies would have you believe.
No disrespect to you, either. If doing what you do works for you, then by all means do it. [/quote]
i agree that nutrient timing is no magic bullet and will not lead to abnormal results/performance but the diffrence between bad and good well planned peri work out nutrition/timing makes a lot of difference in relationship to recovery and endurance .
Again, I think it is more a matter of personal preference.
For me, training more often helps my recovery more than anything else. I know it sounds weird, but I actually feel a lot more sore if I remain inactive on my non-weight training days than if I do another physical activity (e.g. sprints, walking, even weight training again–just not the same body part). As long as I eat well throughout the day, the timing of my meals doesn’t really seem to make a significant difference.
I also have not tried advanced supplement protocols (such as the ANACONDA protocol, which uses a protein that is basically “pre-digested” for faster absorption) so I cannot comment on the effectiveness of nutrient timing in that situation.
However, if one were to eat a meal consisting of a bit of all three macros (like most good meals do), I would guess that the digestion of other food/supplements entering the body would be significantly slowed… making said food/supplements less effective as far as the timing goes.
I have to agree that peri nutrition protocols didn’t make any difference to me. You can get worse results by not eating enough, or by restricting what your body needs (e.g. zero carbs ALL the time)…but overall, the body mostly seeks balance
[quote]rugggby wrote:
Imo some people can’t handle peri nutrition. Ive been having a shake during work outs (50g pro 90 g fast carbs) and I can’t eat for about two hours after because the combination of training and digesting the shake makes me feel sick as a dog. I’ve only just realised lol. Imo I think overall calories and macros are more important.[/quote]
I have never seen peri-nutrition that suggested those ratios. The most common recommendation I’ve seen was 10-15g whey & 15-20g carb. for pre or during.