T Nation

Milk - It Does a Body Bad?

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/milk3-4.html

I also posted several links to studies on my other thread:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=566097

Is milk poison? You decide.

[quote]DownAndOut wrote:
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/milk3-4.html

I also posted several links to studies on my other thread:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=566097

Is milk poison? You decide.
[/quote]

I bet Poweful Image 2.18.2005 drinks her milk…I’d drink hers anyway! I’m gonna’ keep drinking milk I’m going to die someday anyway so I might as well enjoy my life instead of fretting over studies that say I might die if I…blah, blah, blah.

Cripes, even the authors of the study go into a big long tirade about how using a statistical cross-reference has made some lucky catches in the past.

All they have shown is an apparent correlation, which may or may not really be other as yet unknown other factors.

They are so far away from having any definitive cause and effect information it is damned near useless as anything other than a source of ideas for detailed studies to actually find out what is going on.

For example, perhaps the insulin spikes caused by the milk are yet another insult in the high-carb processed sugar lifestyle lead by those living in countries with high milk consumption. Who the hell knows. Does it have anythign to do with healthy people that don’t consume todays crappy food diets? Nobody knows.

I wouldn’t waste my time worrying about it until somebody finds a mechanism of action and then finds out that this applies to people that aren’t sedentary, fat out of shape insulin spike idiots.

Okay, so what is the next fear factor issue to be sprung on us? So far today I’ve been steered away from grains and milk. Why not go for meats, surely they are hugely unhealthy too.

You know water is very toxic, right?
http://www.dhmo.org/

While I agree with Vrooms sentiment, I must say the less milk that I drink the less sinus congestion that I seem to have.

There are some great muscle building compounds in milk no question. Can we get these elsewhere. Yes. Is it easier to just drink milk. Yes.

One question: what other animal drinks the milk of an animal of a different species?

Water is not toxic. Tainted water maybe :slight_smile:

[quote]michaelv wrote:
You know water is very toxic, right?
http://www.dhmo.org/[/quote]

I think there are multiple examples in veterinary science of baby animals being raised by a different species, including drinking the adoptive mother’s milk.

Certainly, they don’t seek it out. But likewise, it’s not unheard of.

If you read the research on foods which are highly correlated to heart disease, the #1 killer among males, you will find stuff like red meat, butter, etc. No big surprises and that is pretty commonly accepted. But milk is also in the top 3, and most people are completely clueless about this.

Thanks to the milk industry, milk it does a body good has been burned into everyones brains.

Take it for what it’s worth. Knowledge is power right? If you avoid eating tons of red meat and butter, but drink gallons of milk, then you are not being consistent.

Caveat: milk seems to be great for kids who are growing, but seems like its not meant to be consumed by adults.

[quote]DownAndOut wrote:
Water is not toxic. Tainted water maybe :slight_smile:
michaelv wrote:
You know water is very toxic, right?
http://www.dhmo.org/
[/quote]

You didn’t even read the FAQ on Dihydrogen Monoxide, did you?

I’ll post it so others can be just as alarmed:

What are some of the dangers associated with DHMO?
Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:

* Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
* Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
* Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
* DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
* Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
* Contributes to soil erosion.
* Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
* Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
* Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
* Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere.
* Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.

What are some uses of Dihydrogen Monoxide?
Despite the known dangers of DHMO, it continues to be used daily by industry, government, and even in private homes across the U.S. and worldwide. Some of the well-known uses of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:

* as an industrial solvent and coolant,
* in nuclear power plants,
* by the U.S. Navy in the propulsion systems of some older vessels,
* by elite athletes to improve performance,
* in the production of Styrofoam,
* in biological and chemical weapons manufacture,
* as a spray-on fire suppressant and retardant,
* in abortion clinics,
* as a major ingredient in many home-brewed bombs,
* as a byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion in furnaces and air conditioning compressor operation,
* in cult rituals,
* by the Church of Scientology on their members and their members' families (although surprisingly, many members recently have contacted DHMO.org to vehemently deny such use),
* by both the KKK and the NAACP during rallies and marches,
* by pedophiles and pornographers (for uses we'd rather not say here),
* by the clientele at a number of homosexual bath houses in New York City and San Francisco,
* historically, in Hitler's death camps in Nazi Germany, and in prisons in Turkey, Serbia, Croatia, Libya, Iraq and Iran,
* in World War II prison camps in Japan, and in prisons in China, for various forms of torture,
* by the Serbian military as authorized by Slobodan Milosevic in their ethnic cleansing campaign,
* by many terrorist organizations,
* by software engineers, including those producing DICOM software SDKs,
* in animal research laboratories, and
* in pesticide production and distribution.

What you may find surprising are some of the products and places where DHMO is used, but which for one reason or another, are not normally made part of public presentations on the dangers to the lives of our family members and friends. Among these startling uses are:

* as an additive to food products, including jarred baby food and baby formula, and even in many soups, carbonated beverages and supposedly "all-natural" fruit juices
* in cough medicines and other liquid pharmaceuticals,
* in spray-on oven cleaners,
* in shampoos, shaving creams, deodorants and numerous other bathroom products,
* in bathtub bubble products marketed to children,
* as a preservative in grocery store fresh produce sections,
* in the production of beer by all the major beer distributors,
* in the coffee available at major coffee houses in the US and abroad,
* in Formula One race cars, although its use is regulated by the Formula One Racing Commission, and
* as a target of ongoing NASA planetary and stellar research.

One of the most surprising facts recently revealed about Dihydrogen Monoxide contamination is in its use as a food and produce “decontaminant.” Studies have shown that even after careful washing, food and produce that has been contaminated by DHMO remains tainted by DHMO.
What is the link between Dihydrogen Monoxide and school violence?
A recent stunning revelation is that in every single instance of violence in our country’s schools, including infamous shootings in high schools in Denver and Arkansas, Dihydrogen Monoxide was involved. In fact, DHMO is often very available to students of all ages within the assumed safe confines of school buildings. None of the school administrators with which we spoke could say for certain how much of the substance is in use within their very hallways.
How does Dihydrogen Monoxide toxicity affect kidney dialysis patients?
Unfortunately, DHMO overdose is not unheard of in patients undergoing dialysis treatments for kidney failure. Dihydrogen Monoxide overdose in these patients can result in congestive heart failure, pulmonary edema and hypertension. In spite of the danger of accidental overdose and the inherent toxicity of DHMO in large quantities for this group, there is a portion of the dialysis treated population that continues to use DHMO on a regular basis.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
One question: what other animal drinks the milk of an animal of a different species? [/quote]

I’ve heard that quote many times before, but is it anything more than propaganda?

Why not “What other animal cooks his meat before eating it?” or “What other animal freezes its food for a while before thawing it and eating it?”

Simply because other animals don’t do something does not necessarily mean it’s bad for us to do so.

And to really stretch it, I guess we’ve all heard of kittens being “adopted” by a dog and fed as her own. So, in exceptional cases, some animals will drink some other animal’s milk.

[quote]DownAndOut wrote:
Caveat: milk seems to be great for kids who are growing, but seems like its not meant to be consumed by adults.[/quote]

Umm…are you telling us facts, or just guessing? Just spouting rumors or what you might have heard is not all that useful.

As for the poster above who asks which animals drink the milk of another animal, I ask the following question: what difference does it make? What other animal cooks its own food? Adaptation is what makes us great. If you’re always worrying about whether something is “natural” without looking to actual facts you’re just wasting your time.

Milk does give me more mucus, which sucks, but whatever. I need my protein.

Look, milk, even fat free, has some minuses. The real question we should be asking is which components of milk are good and which are bad.

Milk contains:
-Protein
-Water
-Lactose
-A lot of sodium and calcium
-Butterfat
-Some other trace minerals and vitamins.

IMO: Cow milk protein is almost perfect, but at least intuitively, I wouldn’t want it to be my only protein source. I think some meat or fish is important.

Water: Fine

Lactose: Everyone is lactose intolerant to some degree. Not good.
FRANCO COLOMU said that the one missing link that he found a lot of people had to drop from their diet to get lean was Milk products-possible due to lactose (and salt)

Calcium: Calcium can interferes with Zinc absorption and may as a result cut testosterone. Enough milk that is.

Sodium: Flat out bad at more than a couple hundred percent of the RDA.

-Butterfat: Not really bad, need to be balanced properly with other fats.

6-8 cups a day probably puts you at a “BAD” level for sodium, butterfat and lactose, and possibly Calcium based on the Zinc uptake inhibition hypothesis.

Holy crap miketv, you’ve got some time on your hands…

From what I’ve heard milk is great for you, it obviously is, since it’s one of the first foods you get as soon as you come out of the womb. It’s the processing it goes through that is the problem. The milk you buy in the super market is first separated into it’s component parts, and then completely remade so that it will be 2%, skim or whatever.

My advice is to take a look at this process and then judge for yourself whether it has been horribly altered. It is my understanding that the pasteurization process prevents the body from being able to assimilate the calcium present in milk. Not sure what else it does, but I’ll probably stay away from milk unless it comes straight from the teat.

um,i just poured some cow’s milk for the cat. he didn’t think twice about taking it all down.

That was my executive summary of numerous studies I have read but did not feel like spending the next half hour looking up again and quoting :slight_smile:

All the studies I posted so far showed that milk is bad for you, but I just wanted to clarify that this was for adults and did not necessarily apply to children. So its not all bad in all cases.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
DownAndOut wrote:
Caveat: milk seems to be great for kids who are growing, but seems like its not meant to be consumed by adults.

Umm…are you telling us facts, or just guessing? Just spouting rumors or what you might have heard is not all that useful.
[/quote]

You said WATER is toxic, and now you keep talking about dhmo. Huh?

Ive never seen a study that shows that H2O is toxic. Please post one.

You could claim that with DHMO in it, water is toxic, but thats not the same as water. Thats kinda like saying apple juice with cyanide in it is toxic, therefore apple juice is toxic. Hmmm.

[quote]michaelv wrote:
DownAndOut wrote:
Water is not toxic. Tainted water maybe :slight_smile:
michaelv wrote:
You know water is very toxic, right?
http://www.dhmo.org/

You didn’t even read the FAQ on Dihydrogen Monoxide, did you?[/quote]

My cat just took a dump and then discovered left over poo on his anus. He didnt think twice about taking it all down :slight_smile:

[quote]cokeandtaco wrote:
um,i just poured some cow’s milk for the cat. he didn’t think twice about taking it all down.[/quote]

This discussion is starting to remind me of that Dr. Mercola guy who seems to think that everything under the sun is bad. If it were up to him, we should probably all just sit in a windowless room with the lights off and not have any contact with the outside world. Oh wait, some contaminants probably got in the room before we shut the door, so we might as well just go ahead and kill ourselves now…

Look, I’m all for living a healthy lifestlye. 50-75% of the food I eat comes from an organic grocery. I don’t smoke, I limit my alcohol intake. I prefer to live in a smaller city (not a small town by any means, but certainly not a metropolis) because the air quality is better. I take moderate amounts of organic fish oil, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m sure, considering the premise of this site, just about all of us could sit around and talk all day about the healthy precautions we take to better our quality of life. But there comes a point where it turns into an obsession.

And THAT is not healthy.

Also, as someone already said albeit in many more words, CORRELATION does NOT mean CAUSATION.

And I’ll go ahead and throw another one on the “other animals broken record”: I’ve never seen any other animals lifting iron to get stronger, taking protein in powder form, using measuring cups and a log to keep track of their caloric intake…I could sit around and do this all day too…

Reading, doing research, and collecting knowledge is fun (at least in my nerdy-ass opinion :-). But go out and fuckin’ get some fresh air too.