T Nation

Milk & Insulin Insensitivity

After reading the carb round table it seems that insulin insensitivity can be caused by creating frequent large insulin surges. Milk then would also contribute since lactose stimulates insulin to a very large extent, I believe far more than other carbs. (And I do know it raises blood sugar little.)

Any comments?

Yeah,skim milk alone.

If you drink 2 % milk with a good meal of protein and good fats,and fiber,it would slow down the insulin surge.

If you’re cutting and you really love skim milk,but can’t drink too much,just have one cup with your shakes in the morning when your insulin levels are low.

Or get some organic soy milk(only 3 carbs,one gram fiber,and no sugar).
You really wont notice a difference between soy milk and cow milk in your shakes.

Cthulhu

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Or get some organic soy milk(only 3 carbs,one gram fiber,and no sugar).
You really wont notice a difference between soy milk and cow milk in your shakes.

Cthulhu[/quote]

Yeah man, suggest soy.

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
Or get some organic soy milk(only 3 carbs,one gram fiber,and no sugar).
You really wont notice a difference between soy milk and cow milk in your shakes.

Cthulhu

Yeah man, suggest soy.[/quote]

LOL!

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
Or get some organic soy milk(only 3 carbs,one gram fiber,and no sugar).
You really wont notice a difference between soy milk and cow milk in your shakes.

Cthulhu

Yeah man, suggest soy.[/quote]

Right. Bad idea. There are soy substances that aren’t estrogenic such as soybean oil. Soy milk is not one of them. Even in the mainstream, it’s known to be estrogenic.

My grandmother had bladder cancer and estrogen-promoting foods were to be avoided for whatever reason as they would only make things worse. She was particularly told to avoid soy milk, which she loved and still misses.

You guys need to read up on the difference between fermented soy and soy protein isolate(which alot of the soy milk comes from).

I’ve posted topics on this a thousand times.

[quote]Rich Hand wrote:
After reading the carb round table it seems that insulin insensitivity can be caused by creating frequent large insulin surges. Milk then would also contribute since lactose stimulates insulin to a very large extent, I believe far more than other carbs. (And I do know it raises blood sugar little.)

Any comments?[/quote]

where did you hear that from? milk has a GI of 34.

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
You guys need to read up on the difference between fermented soy and soy protein isolate(which alot of the soy milk comes from).

I’ve posted topics on this a thousand times.[/quote]

"Modern processed soy products, including soy burgers and soy cheese are not the same as traditional Asian soy. They are by and large unfermented and include tofu and soy protein. These do not provide the same benefits as fermented soy products.

A typical Japanese man eats about 8 grams (2 teaspoon) a day of soy that is mostly fermented as compared to the 220 grams (8oz) a western person in the form of a chunk of tofu and 2 glasses of soy milk, both of which are unfermented. Eating unfermented soy by a vegetarian actually increases the risk of mineral deficiency including calcium, magnesium, copper, and zinc.

Unfermented soy such as soymilk is also the second most common allergen. 1% of the population is truly allergic to cow?s milk, and 2/3 of those will be intolerant to soymilk. Soymilk is also high in aluminum, because they are processed in large aluminum tanks. Studies have shown that 30gram of unfermented soy consumed daily can affect thyroid function and is strongly linked to a host of auto immune diseases such as Hashimoto?s thryoiditis as well as hypothyroidism.

There are some studies have shown that taking 35-60 gram of soy protein a day containing aromatase inhibitor genistein can protect the body against breast cancer. Other studies have shown that women eating soy had a higher incidence of changes in their bodily cellular structure consistent with per-malignant such as epithelial hyperplasia.

Whether soy is beneficial or detrimental to those with estrogen dominance is highly controversial. The key to the puzzle is to understand that phytoestrogens are widely distributed in plants and have structures quite similar to the estrogen in our bodies. As such, they can bind weakly to our body?s internal estrogen receptor sites. Because estrogen is involved in the development of many unwanted disease including hormone sensitive cancers such as breast cancer, it is important to keep the estrogen level as low as possible in the body.

Exposure to the estrogenic effect from soy, though weak, should be avoided in those who are at risk or , have symptoms of , or are in an estrogen dominance state."

I’ve read numerous other bad things elsewhere about soy milk. From everything I’ve read, soy milk is one of the soy products you want to avoid. If you have any, I’d love to see some links that say otherwise.

[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
Rich Hand wrote:
After reading the carb round table it seems that insulin insensitivity can be caused by creating frequent large insulin surges. Milk then would also contribute since lactose stimulates insulin to a very large extent, I believe far more than other carbs. (And I do know it raises blood sugar little.)

Any comments?

where did you hear that from? milk has a GI of 34.[/quote]

As I stated “and I do know it raises blood sugar little.”

The GI has little to do with the insulin response, some other mechanism is involved.

[quote]Rich Hand wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
Rich Hand wrote:

where did you hear that from? milk has a GI of 34.

As I stated “and I do know it raises blood sugar little.”

The GI has little to do with the insulin response, some other mechanism is involved.

[/quote]

Correct, milk has a very high Insulin Index rating. Remember, GI ratings alone can sometimes be very misleading.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
You guys need to read up on the difference between fermented soy and soy protein isolate(which alot of the soy milk comes from).

I’ve posted topics on this a thousand times.

"Modern processed soy products, including soy burgers and soy cheese are not the same as traditional Asian soy. They are by and large unfermented and include tofu and soy protein. These do not provide the same benefits as fermented soy products.

A typical Japanese man eats about 8 grams (2 teaspoon) a day of soy that is mostly fermented as compared to the 220 grams (8oz) a western person in the form of a chunk of tofu and 2 glasses of soy milk, both of which are unfermented. Eating unfermented soy by a vegetarian actually increases the risk of mineral deficiency including calcium, magnesium, copper, and zinc.

Unfermented soy such as soymilk is also the second most common allergen. 1% of the population is truly allergic to cow?s milk, and 2/3 of those will be intolerant to soymilk. Soymilk is also high in aluminum, because they are processed in large aluminum tanks. Studies have shown that 30gram of unfermented soy consumed daily can affect thyroid function and is strongly linked to a host of auto immune diseases such as Hashimoto?s thryoiditis as well as hypothyroidism.

There are some studies have shown that taking 35-60 gram of soy protein a day containing aromatase inhibitor genistein can protect the body against breast cancer. Other studies have shown that women eating soy had a higher incidence of changes in their bodily cellular structure consistent with per-malignant such as epithelial hyperplasia.

Whether soy is beneficial or detrimental to those with estrogen dominance is highly controversial. The key to the puzzle is to understand that phytoestrogens are widely distributed in plants and have structures quite similar to the estrogen in our bodies. As such, they can bind weakly to our body?s internal estrogen receptor sites. Because estrogen is involved in the development of many unwanted disease including hormone sensitive cancers such as breast cancer, it is important to keep the estrogen level as low as possible in the body.

Exposure to the estrogenic effect from soy, though weak, should be avoided in those who are at risk or , have symptoms of , or are in an estrogen dominance state."

I’ve read numerous other bad things elsewhere about soy milk. From everything I’ve read, soy milk is one of the soy products you want to avoid. If you have any, I’d love to see some links that say otherwise. [/quote]

Yes,soy milk made from soy protein isolate.
Fermented soy milk is what I sometimes use.
What makes unfermented soy particularly unsafe: It’s hard to avoid soy in processed foods such as baby formula, meat substitutes, drinks and snacks. One can find it in a great many domestically-produced food products at the grocery store. Additionally, soy is sanctioned by groups like the Soy Protein Council and USDA that cite the presence of isoflavones scientists say reduces one’s risk of cancer.

On the other hand, fermented soy stops the effect of phytic acid and increases the availability of isoflavones. The fermentation also creates the probiotics–the “good” bacteria the body is absolutely dependent on, such as lactobacilli–that increase the quantity, availability, digestibility and assimilation of nutrients in the body.
Many studies have shown traditionally fermented soy–which is the form that is very popular in many Asian cultures–aids in preventing and reducing a variety of diseases including certain forms of heart disease and cancers.

One such study of the culturing method involved in the production of the Japanese traditional food miso concluded the culturing process itself led to a lower number and growth rate of cancers. Researchers also found it was not the presence of any specific nutrient that was cultured along with the soyabean paste but the cultured soy medium itself that was responsible for the health benefits associated with eating miso.

Miso, a fermented or probiotic form of soyabean, is particularly rich in the isoflavone aglycones, genistein and daidzein, which are believed to be cancer chemopreventatives.

The health benefits are found to be as good with natto, according to research conducted by a Japanese scientist who found natto had the highest fibrinolytic activity among 200 foods produced worldwide. About 15 years ago, that same scientist discovered an enzyme produced in the fermentation process, nattokinase, a powerful agent contained in the sticky part of natto that dissolves blood clots that lead to heart attacks, strokes and senility.

Natto also contains vitamin K2 and isophrabon, which help to prevent diseases such as osteoporosis and breast cancer and slow down the aging process.

How Do Fermented Foods Work?

Scientists have considered three different theories:

1 Primary active ingredients in complex fermented soy “foods” act synergistically with secondary compounds

2 Secondary compounds mitigate the undesirable side effects caused by the predominant active ingredients

3Multiple ingredients act through multiple discrete pathways to therapeutically affect the host. That allows lower concentrations of each of the botanicals or soy phytochemicals to be more efficacious when used together than when used individually

Four years ago, the World Health Organization reported the Japanese, who consume large amounts of fermented soy foods like natto and miso along with green tea, ginger and ocean herbs, have the longest lifespan of any people in the world.

Unfortunately, Americans didn’t make the top 20 for lengthy lifespans, which has much to do with a Western diet that emphasizes foods that are processed and genetically altered. That could have a domino effect worldwide on the health of other cultures. Experts fear consumers in other cultures may abandon their traditional fermented foods for a more Western diet, losing healthy sources of probiotic whole food nutrition.

Now,I won’t even get into how they make soy protein isolate using hexane,which is very dangerous.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
You guys need to read up on the difference between fermented soy and soy protein isolate(which alot of the soy milk comes from).

I’ve posted topics on this a thousand times.

"Modern processed soy products, including soy burgers and soy cheese are not the same as traditional Asian soy. They are by and large unfermented and include tofu and soy protein. These do not provide the same benefits as fermented soy products.

A typical Japanese man eats about 8 grams (2 teaspoon) a day of soy that is mostly fermented as compared to the 220 grams (8oz) a western person in the form of a chunk of tofu and 2 glasses of soy milk, both of which are unfermented. Eating unfermented soy by a vegetarian actually increases the risk of mineral deficiency including calcium, magnesium, copper, and zinc.

Unfermented soy such as soymilk is also the second most common allergen. 1% of the population is truly allergic to cow?s milk, and 2/3 of those will be intolerant to soymilk. Soymilk is also high in aluminum, because they are processed in large aluminum tanks. Studies have shown that 30gram of unfermented soy consumed daily can affect thyroid function and is strongly linked to a host of auto immune diseases such as Hashimoto?s thryoiditis as well as hypothyroidism.

There are some studies have shown that taking 35-60 gram of soy protein a day containing aromatase inhibitor genistein can protect the body against breast cancer. Other studies have shown that women eating soy had a higher incidence of changes in their bodily cellular structure consistent with per-malignant such as epithelial hyperplasia.

Whether soy is beneficial or detrimental to those with estrogen dominance is highly controversial. The key to the puzzle is to understand that phytoestrogens are widely distributed in plants and have structures quite similar to the estrogen in our bodies. As such, they can bind weakly to our body?s internal estrogen receptor sites. Because estrogen is involved in the development of many unwanted disease including hormone sensitive cancers such as breast cancer, it is important to keep the estrogen level as low as possible in the body.

Exposure to the estrogenic effect from soy, though weak, should be avoided in those who are at risk or , have symptoms of , or are in an estrogen dominance state."

I’ve read numerous other bad things elsewhere about soy milk. From everything I’ve read, soy milk is one of the soy products you want to avoid. If you have any, I’d love to see some links that say otherwise. [/quote]

While you’re talking about estrogen and soy protein(mostly soy isolate),I’d like to say those very same people need to watch out for the synthetic estrogen that is in our meat and chicken today; should get free range/organic meat whenever they can.

I drink roughly 2-3 gallons of fat free skim milk a week, I’m bulking though, but I take it this is acceptable?

[quote]Countrylasttime wrote:
I drink roughly 2-3 gallons of fat free skim milk a week, I’m bulking though, but I take it this is acceptable?[/quote]

It’s not so bad when you’re bulking and you’re having alot of protein and low fat with high II foods.
Keep what you’re doing.
I drink a lot of 2% milk when I bulk and I don’t see it adding any fat gain.
Especially when you eat food with the milk(lowers GI).