Military Service Advice

[quote]Renton wrote:
Stick with the Airforce …[/quote]

That’s a Navy picture. Notice the carrier in the background? We don’t have those. :wink:

[quote]Jacked Diesel wrote:
John S. wrote:
I am going to go against everyone here and say avoid infantry. do go officer but pick another mos.

why[/quote]

I wish I would have picked a different mos(also would mean I wouldnt have this current problem I am having with them). I got screwed over in something and basicly was told by them that since I was infantry I was goign to be forced to get a EPTS, Fought with them to get a els so I could go back in in 2 years.

They told me if I was in a different mos I would not have been screwed over like that.

I did 20 years in the USAF and I really miss it. I was enlisted F4/F16 Mech for the first 10 years and fixed Comm for the last ten. I loved every minute of it. You normally have to have an primary AFSC first and then apply for SF positions. That way if you wash out of the SF they still get to keep you.

What branch you choose is really up to you and what you want out of it. It is all good going to work for a reason other than money. You can also do the Guard/Reserve route if you want to get your feet wet and see what it is all about first.

[quote]DickBag wrote:
if you want to be a pilot then join the airforce and go for a comision.

if you want to be a seal, go enlisted.

officers only get one shot.

besides, who wants to be held in high respect like an officer

what a pain in the ass.

enlisted seals are more bad ass than any non special ops officer.

ive been thinking about enlisting for the seal contract since i was 14.

we are in the same boat, even though i think your a bit wierd after your “stop your whining” thread.

from what ive read on the net and heard from boatguy, you do bootcamp then you go straight into indoctrination for buds.

if you pass buds first attempt on the seal contract, then you get 40 grand.

thers some fuel for your desire to be rich and succesful alla at the same time.

personaly i couldnt give a shit about the 40 grand though. becoming a seal would be fist priority

saying that you have the body for seal training is gay.

its not modeling.

and going to other countries doing operations would be the fun part!

[/quote]

you completely missed my point as to what I was saying about having the body for SEALs. I train 6 days a week probably 10% less as intense then a seal would. I start every morning off with the crossfit WOD, then do calisthenics, then later do heavy lifting.

The only thing I do not do that SEALs already do is go on 5-10 mile runs, and have some weeks where I get 4 hours of sleep. I wouldn’t give two shits about how my body looked, I could look like a 400lb slob as long as I would be able to make it through that training.

I’ve got 24 years in as an Officer in the USAF at this point. Concur with the inputs that tell you basic is required for all the branches branch, before you can be considered for SF, whether it be enlisted or Officer. In the army it also requires one full tour in another specialty. AF only recently (in the last 6-7 years) opened the Pararescue (PJ) field to officers, all the others in the Air Force SF were helo and C-130 pilots.

If you want to go Air Force, go as an officer. True cred comes from how well you lead your people and do your job, not from being prior enlisted, although few officer jobs in the USAF, especially with your educational background, give you much opportunity to lead troops - other than in an office setting.

If you are physically qualified, you might consider pilot training, although that would entail a longer committment (up to 10 years). If you want technical training, work experience valued by the business world, and the opportunity to see the world, I highly recommend joining the USAF.

I’d be happy to discuss this more with you. I think there’s a way you can send me a personal message, vice posting to the board, if you have more questions.

[quote]Jacked Diesel wrote:
you completely missed my point as to what I was saying about having the body for SEALs. I train 6 days a week probably 10% less as intense then a seal would. I start every morning off with the crossfit WOD, then do calisthenics, then later do heavy lifting.

The only thing I do not do that SEALs already do is go on 5-10 mile runs, and have some weeks where I get 4 hours of sleep. I wouldn’t give two shits about how my body looked, I could look like a 400lb slob as long as I would be able to make it through that training.[/quote]

If you think that is like SEAL PT, you got another thing coming haha.

I was a jarhead and we trained at Coronado a few times. They swim, then run with their boats, then get thrashed, then do it all over again. SEALs are as PT stud as you get.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[quote]Rocket Scientist wrote:
I’ve got 24 years in as an Officer in the USAF at this point. Concur with the inputs that tell you basic is required for all the branches branch, before you can be considered for SF, whether it be enlisted or Officer. In the army it also requires one full tour in another specialty.[/quote]

I beg to differ. In the Navy, you can get SEAL/SWCC/EOD/Diver guaranteed in your contract(you would still have to meet the requirements, including a physical test while in boot camp). In the Army, you can contract directly into SF via the 18-X program(18 is the designator for Army SF, the X means you are a trainee), as well as volunteer for Airborne and/or Ranger school. Unless you meant an officer has to do a tour first? In the Navy, that is also not true. I have seen fresh Ensigns go to BUD/S right after commisioning.

Don’t know how the marines do it with Recon, but the AF does require a prior specialty before screening for PJ/CCT.

Read The Warrior Elite by Dick Couch. He is an ex-SEAL who followed the training of class 228 from Indoc all the way to graduation. It is the definitive look at BUD/S. Though I’m sure training has evolved a lot in the last 5 years.

Read The Warrior Elite by Dick Couch. It is the definitive look at BUD/S. He is an ex-SEAL who followed class 228 from Indoc to graduation. If you like that, pick up The Finishing School, also by Dick Couch. It is about the next phase of SEAL training after BUD/S. Believe it or not, the shit gets harder.

[quote]boatguy wrote:
but the AF does require a prior specialty before screening for PJ/CCT.[/quote]

That’s not true at all.

The only AFSC I know of that you can’t be coming immediately out of BASIC training is OSI.

You CAN do PJ, CCT and TACP. I’m not 100% sure about SERE but I believe you can do that directly from BASIC also. If you want me to find out I can find out for you.

[quote]Jacked Diesel wrote:

The only thing I do not do that SEALs already do is go on 5-10 mile runs, and have some weeks where I get 4 hours of sleep. [/quote]

Honestly, I highly doubt that. Now i’ll even give you the benifit of doubt, however there is no way in hell you are training everyday the way they do during BUD’s.

Everyone can sit back at their computer and type about how they do this and they do that, and how easy it would be. Bullshit, give me a break. I go to military school, and even here, at the beginning of the year it’s 'oh yeah, i’m gonna go infantry/ranger/sf. but when it comes time for acessions, how many people get it? And then, how many actually go through with it.

Don’t waste your time and the time of others, go ADA or chem corps.

There’s a good 3 part special on The Military Channel they play about a BUDs class that shows the crazy stuff they do.

You can’t simulate that kind of physical/mental stress on your own no matter how hard you try.

[quote]Liquid447 wrote:
Jacked Diesel wrote:

The only thing I do not do that SEALs already do is go on 5-10 mile runs, and have some weeks where I get 4 hours of sleep.

Honestly, I highly doubt that. Now i’ll even give you the benifit of doubt, however there is no way in hell you are training everyday the way they do during BUD’s.

Everyone can sit back at their computer and type about how they do this and they do that, and how easy it would be. Bullshit, give me a break. I go to military school, and even here, at the beginning of the year it’s 'oh yeah, i’m gonna go infantry/ranger/sf. but when it comes time for acessions, how many people get it? And then, how many actually go through with it.

Don’t waste your time and the time of others, go ADA or chem corps.

[/quote]

Agreed. If you pt’d to that level daily then you’d be a whisp of a man. That type of PT doesn’t build you up, it breaks you down.

mike

If it is something that has always been a goal / dream of yours, then by all means, do it. I went to college for three years just to make my parents happy, and hated it. When I finally grew a set of nuts and decided to join the Army, my parents disowned me…and I will still tell you it was the best thing I ever did for myself, hands down.

I enlisted, did seven years as an MP. Frankly, I wish I had gone Infantry, but that’s not the point. Whether you choose to go enlisted or officer, there will always be something to challenge you if you choose a good MOS, and take advantage of every school you can get your hands on.

No matter the branch, no matter what the recruiter tells you, make them put as many schools as you can into your contract. ALWAYS get it in writing…don’t let them tell you you can get this school or that school once you graduate Basic, cos you won’t. I had friends in Basic who had Airborne School, Air Assault School and a Ranger School option (contingent on passing the Ranger Indoc Program) in their contracts, and that was as Military Police! (By the way, this was in 1990. I don’t think non-combat arms related MOS’s can get Ranger anymore.)

The point is, do your research, and comparison shop. They need you more than you need them right now, so go with whoever offers you the best deal. That may sound cynical, but you are going to be signing your life over to the government for eight years, minimum…so get the most bang for your buck.

One other thing. Although I was Army and I jokingly mock the other forces (as they mock us) EVERY service is valuable. Best of luck on your decision.

P.S. SEAL’s are over-rated. No doubt, they can PT their asses off. Operationally, they leave a lot to be desired. Give me an SF ODA, plus it up with a CCT and a PJ from the Air Force, and give me a reinforced platoon of Rangers or Marines for back-up, and I’ll take over the world.

Jacked, you seem to like the fact that you are getting a degree and are educated. That would lead me to believe you would like the USAF the best. From what I’ve seen the AF guys seemed to be a little smarter than the rest and did better on the ASVAB, plus most of the AFSC seem to cater towards more technical/skilled jobs that could transfer to careers after the military.

[quote]deadleg wrote:
Dude I joined a year after I earned my degree. Was tired of sitting in my hometown and not really doing much but working, drinking and fishing. And not really in that order.

Was the best damn thing I ever did. I went enlisted and never regretted it a single day. Basic was kind of crappy as the drills usually gave me a harder time and being older than most of the platoon when I got to my first unit was kind of weird. My first team leader did not like that I was older than him and had a degree. But he eventually got over it and it was no big deal as soon as he figured out he could make me miserable and do pretty much whatever he wanted, ha ha. I laugh at it now but man that first six months sucked.

I say join the Army. Go infantry. Go to airborne school and then try to get to ranger school. Spend some time in combat and then go to SFAS and become a Green Beret. You should have one hell of a good time and love your time in the service. It will work for you.

If you pick one of those MOS’s that “teach you a skill” you will probably be surrounded by turds who just want to “learn a skill”. Join the infantry, go to some good schools, and then go SF. You will love every minute of it. Even the days spent with water running down the crack of your ass and 60-100 pounds on your back. Trust me. Thats what I did and I loved every minute of it.

You can always volunteer for OCS after doing some time enlisted and you will be better off for it. Almost did it myself but was having to much fun being enlisted.

If you do not go infantry you will regret it everyday of your service!!! [/quote]

I’ll have to say ditto to this. You know you can take anything when you are humping that ruck, trying to fight your way through vine filled draws-vines and undergrowth that seem to grow around you and trip you for fun-- in Wonderful North Carolina, in the cold cold rain, and that one bead of water runs down the crack of your ass. That’s when the SUCK has ya. And you either beat him down or slink off in the night when no one can see ya go, another empty bed in the morning.

And if you go SF go Echo or Delta–Commo or Medic–best real world jobs after. DON’T BE A CHARLIE, no matter what they say you get to blow up.

I did not read the entire thing, so this information may be redundant:
(I am currently in the Naval Reserves preparing for a shot at SEAL training)

Enlisted: This is the best way of actually becoming a SEAL
You go to your recruiter and tell them you want to join under the SEAL Challenge Contract. Basically if you can pass the SEAL PST (fitness test) before you ship out to boot camp, and once at boot camp, you are guaranteed a spot at BUD/S (the first step in SEAL training).

Officer: In your case you would go to OCS, and apply for a SEAL officer billet. These things are worth their weight in gold x10, that is how rare and competitive they are. You need to be a fitness monster and have a solid GPA to be competitive here. If you are lucky and do get a billet you go to BUD/S.

Once at BUD/S: First phase is the physical readiness phase, this is where 80 to 85% quit and only the committed remain. Becoming a SEAL is no idle choice, its a road of cold, wet, misery.

As far as inter-service transfers to SEAL training, yes they exist but they are rare and only for enlisted.

You can do an inter-service transfer and then apply for BUD/S though, correct?

The inter-service transfer thing(from what I have been able to find) basically does not exist for enlisted, except in very specialized circumstances. Thus, not available to 90+% of the enlisted population. The only guaranteed way to do it is to get out of one service at your EAOS and then reenlist into your target branch. And BTW, recruiters are not allowed to talk to you until you are discharged or on terminal leave(using the last of your leave days right before your actual discharge date).

I knew one guy who did an interservice transfer. He was a Recon Marine, got out and came in the Navy as a Corpsman to go to BUD/S, washed out(I think he got injured), and went back to Recon as an FMF Corpsman(since he was already qualified). Ended up in Great Lakes, and happened to meet the right Sergeant Major at MEPCOM who helped him out. The reason he was able to do a direct transfer was due to upward mobility: he was an E-4 in the Navy, but if he had stayed in the Corps he would have been an E-5 in the zone for E-6.

Not using that to prove my statement(I am sure other people have done it), just pointing out how specialized his circumstances were.

[quote]mattwray wrote:
Jacked Diesel wrote:
you completely missed my point as to what I was saying about having the body for SEALs. I train 6 days a week probably 10% less as intense then a seal would. I start every morning off with the crossfit WOD, then do calisthenics, then later do heavy lifting.

The only thing I do not do that SEALs already do is go on 5-10 mile runs, and have some weeks where I get 4 hours of sleep. I wouldn’t give two shits about how my body looked, I could look like a 400lb slob as long as I would be able to make it through that training.

If you think that is like SEAL PT, you got another thing coming haha.

I was a jarhead and we trained at Coronado a few times. They swim, then run with their boats, then get thrashed, then do it all over again. SEALs are as PT stud as you get.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[/quote]

Yeah, if you think some crossfit and some other shit is anything like seal PT or BUD/s you are living in some magical world. Kudos to training hard and I am first to say that crossfit can be some hard shit. But your best time at “fran” doesn’t mean shit halfway through a 2 mile swim followed by obstacle course and boat running.

Also, the difference between crossfiting in a well lit gym with training shoes on and Seal PT in a torrential downpour with issue boots is the difference between apples and transmissions. One is good for you and one will crush you.

I had the opportunity to train with Navy marine recon, seals and one army infantry ranger at an auxiliary training camp for the aussie SAS hopefuls. Every person there broke. The recon guy and the seal said that the training for recon and seals was the same in that they didn’t just put you through some preset test of drills to see if you were fit. They ran you till you dropped, then made you do push ups. Even the hardest humans break after a certain point of work in a certain amount of time.

So yeah, it’s good to be prepared but the tougher you make out to be the more joy you are providing your drill master (aussie term, US is maybe drill Sgt.?) when you finally fall over.

-chris