Can I make the assumption you’re taking an injection once a week? What is your protocol?
currently I dose every 3 days. 50mg tcyp & .25 AI.
i have plans to change to 60mg every 3.5days though very soon.
whatever frequency, i try to find a balance between dose of T and AI that I can take the same day. I dont want this to be any more complicated than it already is.
Some guys are dosing every 3.5, taking AI every 2 etc. I already dont know what i’d do if i lost my phone/reminders 
at least with an every 3.5 it will be same day/time every week. The only shortcoming I see is needing my doctor to be available for labs on the same day every time ;p
in other news, legs done. Feeling a bit lethargic but other than that and the night sweats I had, so far so good. Though its my understanding it takes the brain some time to register the change in estrogen levels so i might be up the creek in a few days. Time will tell.
I wish I could show you just how unbelievablly far off the mark you are with your current understanding of estrogen. No offense. Half a mg of Arimidex a week for a peasly 100mg of test a week is just… I have no words…
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that sounds like your painting with a pretty large brush.
I mean, if that half mg is what it takes to keep my 116mg a week E2 number at 27-30, where would it be without?
Obviously high enough to screw with me mentally. My wife mentioned I was being a legit dick, i had zero libido, i could feel my patience was awful with my children, and i saw a sad story about some kid dying of cancer on facebook and almost teared up.
that was after going ~4 injections without an AI.
not so sure i buy what your selling, and this comes from someone who as i noted, would love to not be taking it. I tried several times, just like i tried SubQ several times.
Not to mention 100mg a week of test for one guy might trough him at 700 or something, due to injecting E3D, my trough is at 1200, id say im probably aromatizing a fair enough amount.
hopefully when i swap to E3.5D (after i see through this 3mg super dose) that trough number will drop, and with it perhaps my E2 to a point I wont feel like gutter trash without an AI.
Why would you possible want to keep your E2 between 27-30? Is this something you learned online?
Can you list the benefits of estrogen?
I’m not selling a thing, I can assure you.
Your entire focus here is E2. This is why you’re having a hard time. You’re not taking into account anything else because you’re focused on a single number.
Question: How long did you go without taking an AI until you gave up and took some more?
As opposed to what? even higher? I would be fine with a little higher - so long as it didnt bring on awful symptoms, which it did/does. Whether im toe’ing the line of where my sensitivity falls, or dropping the AI increases it just THAT much, i dont know.
the range for adult males is 10-40 at least on my labs.
i dont imnagine youre selling anything lol. But there are plenty of different camps. Ive heard them both loud and clear. And i do regret getting on the AI a little early. I wonder now if have my trouble stopping is due to rebound.
Some people will tell you a proper hrt is test-hcg-ai, period. Others will tell you not to touch an AI no matter what.
Perhaps one day I can get to the point that I can be there. Would love that. And to come to terms with my receding hairline and drop the rogaine even
As opposed to: Your issue isn’t estrogen. Stop measuring it. Pretend it doesn’t exist. As long as you’re focused on that, you’re not going to find the solution. None of the physicians I deal with measure it anymore. It’s a non-concern UNLESS someone has an aromatase deficiency where they are not making enough. Then the physician will prescribe exogenous estrogen.
It was admittedly only a few weeks. 2? 4-5 E3D shots.
I was good for the first half, but then i started getting super pissy and emotional, and libido was gone and that was half the reason i got on trt. I cant tolerate that nor being a dick to my kids, that sure as shit aint fair to them.
If your going to tell me it most certainly was rebound, i wouldnt argue. Like i said, im honestly/definitely seeking to be free of it if i can.
When you stop taking an AI, with the total T you have, you will be worse before you are better for many weeks. You just need to get through it. You might benefit from doing more frequent injections. Many guys have issues with the ups and downs during the week. Some have to resort to small daily injections to keep levels stable and consistent.
Once you are able to wean yourself off your AI, and allow the body to balance, and you see the difference it makes, you will NEVER go back to taking one.
Half of the benefits you are looking for from TRT come from estrogen.
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My e2 was 73 last time I tested it. Plenty here are as high or higher than that. It’s not the boogey man. Let it ride, give it some time, it will work out on its own in almost all cases
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That was just your natural T production ceasing. Everybody knows you need 6-8 weeks for a protocol to become balanced out.
Edit: I may be speaking out of turn because I am not sure if this was you just starting out.
yea, i dont know. If things are going out of range when ranges themsselves are really freaking broad… meh.
high E2 can lead to heart attack/stroke/water retention etc. All things im predisposed to.
ironically - i had quit the AI right after i had started my cut. 2350 calories which had me losing about 1.5lbs a week. The week after i jumped back on after a few weeks off, i lost 3.75lbs. Obviously some water went with it.
but open minded enough to accept it could have been water gained through rebound that would have made its way out on its own.
more labs this summer as i’ll be due for my annual, ideally it’ll be without an ai to see where I fall.
Since your such an advocate, I imagine you’d know how long you need to go without any AI to be even steven? I know it leaves the system rather quickly, but with the potential for rebound due to circulating estrogen first, then the purportedly protracted amount of time it takes to build up. When would I be safe to test sans AI and expect a solid reading thats done climbing?
Watch this video as it will give you an eye opener. It’s an interview I did with Dr. Jordan Grant. He doesn’t use AIs in his practice. Neither do Dr Mark Gordon, Dr Eric Serrano, Dr Jeffery Ruterbusch, Dr Brad Garner, Joe Jeffery who I just interviewed, John Meadows, Greg Doucette, Broderick Chavez, Jim Brown, Dr Edward Lichton, and on and on and on. All guys I’ve interviewed. None of them block estrogen with any of their patients or clients.
This one is queued up to the relevant part.
If you REALLY want an eye opener about estrogen, and have some time, nothing beats this one:
You have no understand of the ranges unfortunately. E2 follows T. You can’t raise T and not expect E2 to follow to keep a balance/ratio. You can’t raise one and lower the other.
I have no idea where you learned this, but you have been brainwashed.
Estrogen is CARDIOPROTECTIVE and BRAIN PROTECTIVE. The exact opposite of what you think.
Again, you’re focusing on a number that the rest of us don’t even concern ourselves with. I can’t blame you. You’ve been brainwashed by the bro science that we were all taught. It took someone 3 years of arguing with me to convince me to stop blocking E2. Then I stopped and after several weeks everything improved across the board. All the guys I work with are off their AI, all the patients of all the physicians I work with are off their AI.
When you stop, you’ll feel worse before you feel better. With every passing week as your body finds balance things will improve. Once your levels stabilize you will be far better off than anytime you took an AI.
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yea my SHBG is rather high. was 55 before starting TRT. have seen it as low as 38 now. As i mentioned before, I did try subQ where I would have considered more frequent, but each time I felt awful after the switch.
Eventually I decided to frontload a bit this way i wouldnt drop so low while my body adjusted to the new absorption rate. This worked out, I made it out the other side and felt “okay” but no libido, no morning wood. Come labs time, on the same dose/frequency/everything but with SubQ I was about 400 pts lower on TT, 30 pts lower on FT, and had higher E2, higher DHT, higher PSA.
in short, anymore frequent than I am injecting im not on board with since im doing IM. TBH id like less frequently thats why im strongly considering a shift from E3D to E3.5D. Every little bit. I dont like it imposing on my life much more than it already is.
My doc prescribes me 200mg a week so ive got wiggle room. I actually felt my absolute best on 80mg e3.5d with .25 EoD. However hematocrit was creeping up and im not on board with having to donate blood on the regular either.
plus ive always subscribed to the less is more when having to take something for life.
What are your free T levels in the trough on this protocol?
By the way, are you familiar with my YouTube channel called ‘TRT and Hormone Optimization’? There is a TON of content there where we interview doctors and medical professionals and relay the information of things we are learning from all of them. Great place to learn.
Heres some labs for mulling over. All IM except for the last one which was the stab at SubQ. I felt great on 80mg e3.5 and 60mg e3. the 50mg e3d is meh at best and the subQ was awful as far as libido or morning erections go.
My hypothesis is I need higher FT to bring on the morning wood/libido. What I find absolutely odd that ive been trying to understand in order to dial in better is why on my 80mg every 3.5D i was at a lower TT but higher FT relative to the 60mg E3D? Id like to get my FT up to where it is on the 60mg E3D but keep my TT lower. The results speak to injecting more but less frequently.
its like you (or at least I?) metabolize off TT faster than FT if thats possible.
1/17/18 (80mg E3.5D/.25EoD)
Total Testosterone 1137
Free Testosterone 216
SHBG 33
E2 26
Hematocrit 50.1
PSA .87
Cholesterol 126
HDL 52
LDL 59
2/22/19 (60mg E3D/.25EoD)
BP 117/69
Total Testosterone 1280
Free Testosterone 192
SHBG 47
E2 <25
E2 Serum 14.9
Hematocrit 51.2
PSA .9
DHT 660
Cholesterol 119
HDL 46
LDL 60
5/11/19 (50mg E3D/.25E3D)
Total Testosterone 1192
Free Testosterone 179
SHBG 46
E2 27
E2 Serum 28.2
Estrone 26.3
Total Estrogens 54.5
Hematocrit 50.9
PSA .74
DHT 480
8/27/19 (50mg E3D/.25E3D) SubQ
Total Testosterone 895
Free Testosterone 152
SHBG 38
E2 30
Hematocrit 49.2
PSA .88
DHT - 517
Cholesterol 121
HDL 50
LDL 60