T Nation

Middle of Night Shake While Cutting?

If you are very active and are slowely cutting fat while preserving/increasing lean mass, would it be beneficial or detrimental to have a middle of the night shake?

I sleep 9-10 hours most nights and usually have 30g of protein at 4am or so. Should I continue this practice if I am doing a small cut? Does it make a difference if I lifted on the day or not?

-Jeff

take it … catabolism states isn’t good either in “bulking” or “cuting”

For fat lost it’s mostly carbs timing related.

Probably just as easy, if not more easy to have some BCAA’s on your night stand and just take those. Yes, it is a good idea though.

9-10 hours? That’s a lot of shut eye! I’m envious.

[quote]Christopheel wrote:
take it … catabolism states isn’t good either in “bulking” or “cuting”

For fat lost it’s mostly carbs timing related.[/quote]

Yes and no. I’d say take the protein, albiet not as much -maybe cut that amount in half. As for the fat loss, it mostly a calories thing. Carb timing is very important, but I’d worry more about being at around maintainance level (since your slowly trying to cut/gain) and go higher on heavy training days and lower on off days.

I remember reading in temporal nutrition that one (1) egg white was enough to offset catabolism before some low intensity morning cardio for Lowery and Shugart (in his blog).

I’d say take some Low-Carb Metabolic Drive before going to bed and then take some BCAA’s when you wake up.

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
I’d say take some Low-Carb Metabolic Drive before going to bed and then take some BCAA’s when you wake up.[/quote]

That is exactly what I do. Angry Vader, you are smart. I know that some of the author’s here will recommend extra BCAA’s throughout the night too. Personally, I don’t wake up enough to do it but if you can, more power to you.

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
I’d say take some Low-Carb Metabolic Drive before going to bed and then take some BCAA’s when you wake up.[/quote]

That’s what I do too. I think it’s more important to get into a deep sleep and get a solid 8 hours (or more if you can get it) of sleep. I keep my water bottle and BCAA’s next to my bed and if I happen to wake up for some reason I will take them. Otherwise I will just take them when I get up in the morning.

[quote]MsM wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
I’d say take some Low-Carb Metabolic Drive before going to bed and then take some BCAA’s when you wake up.

That is exactly what I do. Angry Vader, you are smart. I know that some of the author’s here will recommend extra BCAA’s throughout the night too. Personally, I don’t wake up enough to do it but if you can, more power to you.[/quote]

Great minds think alike! :slight_smile:

I normally keep the BCAA’s on the night stand, but I also don’t usually wake up during the night. In the event I do, I’ll take them before falling back asleep. Otherwise, I take them when I wake in the morning.

I have trouble getting back to sleep quickly with the bcaas + food combo for whatever reason

as far as the shake I can see both sides of this one and I’m not sure what makes more sense. I can wake up pretty consistently in 4-5 hours by drinking water before I sleep but I’m not sure if the quality of sleep is impacted or not.

[quote]allenkt wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
I’d say take some Low-Carb Metabolic Drive before going to bed and then take some BCAA’s when you wake up.

That’s what I do too. I think it’s more important to get into a deep sleep and get a solid 8 hours (or more if you can get it) of sleep. I keep my water bottle and BCAA’s next to my bed and if I happen to wake up for some reason I will take them. Otherwise I will just take them when I get up in the morning.[/quote]

I totally copied you…

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
MsM wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
I’d say take some Low-Carb Metabolic Drive before going to bed and then take some BCAA’s when you wake up.

That is exactly what I do. Angry Vader, you are smart. I know that some of the author’s here will recommend extra BCAA’s throughout the night too. Personally, I don’t wake up enough to do it but if you can, more power to you.

Great minds think alike! :slight_smile:

I normally keep the BCAA’s on the night stand, but I also don’t usually wake up during the night. In the event I do, I’ll take them before falling back asleep. Otherwise, I take them when I wake in the morning.[/quote]

Why thank you! :slight_smile:

You don’t wake up during the night? You must not have a zinc deficiency. (Simple things amuse simple minds, sorry.)

[quote]MsM wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
MsM wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
I’d say take some Low-Carb Metabolic Drive before going to bed and then take some BCAA’s when you wake up.

That is exactly what I do. Angry Vader, you are smart. I know that some of the author’s here will recommend extra BCAA’s throughout the night too. Personally, I don’t wake up enough to do it but if you can, more power to you.

Great minds think alike! :slight_smile:

I normally keep the BCAA’s on the night stand, but I also don’t usually wake up during the night. In the event I do, I’ll take them before falling back asleep. Otherwise, I take them when I wake in the morning.

Why thank you! :slight_smile:

You don’t wake up during the night? You must not have a zinc deficiency. (Simple things amuse simple minds, sorry.)

[/quote]

I suppose I don’t, but I have been taking ZMA since it first became available.

I used to wake up all the time during the night (even with ZMA), but since I’ve done a better job of establishing a consistent sleep pattern, I don’t wake up that often anymore. Except for when I have nightmares (which usually involve me being attacked by a shark). :slight_smile:

[/hijack]

if you are going to try to do night time feeding, dont set an alarm, fucks with your REM sleep, instead, drink a lot of water before you go to sleep, more natural way to be awakened. It’ll also make it a lot easier to fall back asleep (least, it does for me).

It’s good to see that nocturnal feedings are alive and well!
Contrary to common dogma, sleep is our most catabolic time (especially during a cut), but casein in the middle of the night is a great way to help offset this.

I’d avoid whey or BCAA’s, but this thread is already full of great advice.

If you’re interested in more info, here’s my second T-Nation article (from back in the day) which was about Nocturnal feeding.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/supplements/stop_the_catabolic_insanity&cr=

Have the shake if you wake up naturally. As said, don’t set an alarm to wake up. Also don’t have the shake if you’ll have a lot of trouble falling back to sleep. Otherwise, it can do nothing but good.

[quote]David Barr wrote:
It’s good to see that nocturnal feedings are alive and well!
Contrary to common dogma, sleep is our most catabolic time (especially during a cut), but casein in the middle of the night is a great way to help offset this.

I’d avoid whey or BCAA’s, but this thread is already full of great advice.

If you’re interested in more info, here’s my second T-Nation article (from back in the day) which was about Nocturnal feeding.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/supplements/stop_the_catabolic_insanity&cr=[/quote]

Well, that just threw a wrench into my little routine. Just kidding, Dave. I had honestly never thought to use an insulated bottle, knowing full-well I’d never get up to make a shake. I am going to try that tonight; thanks for the suggestion. Thank you for the link to the article as well. Always nice to read the oldie but goodies.

Now, just a quick question, if you will. I see that you would suggest a whey/cassein blend but what would you say is not ideal about taking BCAA’s?

[quote]MsM wrote:
David Barr wrote:
It’s good to see that nocturnal feedings are alive and well!
Contrary to common dogma, sleep is our most catabolic time (especially during a cut), but casein in the middle of the night is a great way to help offset this.

I’d avoid whey or BCAA’s, but this thread is already full of great advice.

If you’re interested in more info, here’s my second T-Nation article (from back in the day) which was about Nocturnal feeding.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/supplements/stop_the_catabolic_insanity&cr=

Well, that just threw a wrench into my little routine. Just kidding, Dave. I had honestly never thought to use an insulated bottle, knowing full-well I’d never get up to make a shake. I am going to try that tonight; thanks for the suggestion. Thank you for the link to the article as well. Always nice to read the oldie but goodies.

Now, just a quick question, if you will. I see that you would suggest a whey/cassein blend but what would you say is not ideal about taking BCAA’s?
[/quote]

Now that I think about it, my guess would be that the BCAA’s get into your system a little too quickly. Maybe I need to keep a shaker bottle with a scoop of low-carb Metabolic Drive on the nightstand instead.

Thanks for the article, Dave. It’s been a while since I’ve read that, so it was a good refresher.

People that think they need to wake up in the middle of the night to squeeze in some protein are ill-informed and a little neurotic. MAYBE if you were in a contest but even then the disruption of your adrenal glands ability to produce adrenaline by getting up is not worth the effort. If you get up in the middle of the night to pee then you need to correct that situation.

Just thought I’d add this in because the study that I have showing the disruption of adrenaline production is too old to be online.

"A study published in the April edition of the American Journal of Physiology - Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology suggests that frequent disruptions in the sleep cycle (also known as circadian rhythm) can increase the risk of kidney and heart disease. (The study is not yet available online.)

Conducted by researchers from the Peter Munk Cardiac Centre at Toronto General Hospital, the study altered the internal biological clocks of rodent (hamster) models using external regulators (such as reversing light and dark periods) and found that the changes resulted in cardiomyopathy (damage and enlargement of the heart) and scarring of the kidney tubules.

Based on findings from this and several other previous studies, the researchers concluded that renewal of organ tissues likely occurs during sleep, suggesting that sleep disruption prevents this process from happening and results in damage to the organs.

The researchers note that these problems may be particularly acute among flight crews, truck drivers, and �??graveyard�?? or other variable shift workers. In fact, while most studies of these populations have focused on the effects of sleep deprivation and concentration and performance, the latest study may help explain why such workers have higher rates of cardiovascular disease. With that being said, the study�??s lead author suggests that such workers consider these findings when scheduling work time,�?? or at the very least �??try to maintain a constant working schedule for one month or more [to allow] the body to readjust its clock to external cues.�??

[quote]storey420 wrote:
People that think they need to wake up in the middle of the night to squeeze in some protein are ill-informed and a little neurotic. MAYBE if you were in a contest but even then the disruption of your adrenal glands ability to produce adrenaline by getting up is not worth the effort. If you get up in the middle of the night to pee then you need to correct that situation. [/quote]

Correcting this isn’t a possibility for everyone. If you workout at night, which many people do, you do need a good amount of water with your Surge/PWO drink, thus waking up in the middle of the night to pee. Its a pain but I don’t see how its avoided in this situation.