T Nation

Middle Class Mobility? Middle Class Destruction.

Damning statistics.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here's-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

I wonder how that compares to other countries and also what the historical trend is. Those numbers don’t really surprise me

Don’t see how that stops them being middle class, it says more about spending and credit than class.

It would have been a lot more if those stocks had performed better.

This is more to do with people realising that most pension schemes are a scam combined with more focus on now than the future. Not an indicator of class.

see above

Nothing to do with middle class, more to do with the economy at the moment.

as above

Worrying though somewhere like London or Moscow I bet it is far far worse. Again, not sure how this relates to the middle class.

Not sure how this relates to middle class. More about working class people getting mortgages they can’t really afford.

Would be interested to see the math on that one, in any case is probably about a few super-rich execs at the top. Cut out the outliers and you probably wouldn’t see so much difference.

No trends given so hard to get what point they are making

not sure what the point is. Many on wall street come from a working class background.

This is about the growth of the public sector, whether you work public or private sector you can be working or middle class.

Wealth consolidates in a capitalist society, what does this say about middle class?

Yep, the economy is bad, what percentage of those out of work are working class though? Also, it typically takes less time to pick up unskilled work than skilled work, the recruitment cycle is much shorter.

The US economy has moved into a tertiary stage, this is no surprise. The Manager of an insurance company is in a service job, is he working class or middle class?

And your population is higher than ever, of course records like this will get hit.

Is a garment worker middle class now?

This is very sad and to do with the way your population is growing disproportionately in certain areas.

Would that not be good news? People are moving from working or middle class to being rich (using US definitions of class not UK)

And the top 20 percent probably earn around 80 percent. Is that a surprise to the economist who wrote this?

Wow, talk about ye have little faith…

Yes. Americas economic system is designed to make a few people very rich while the vast majority barely get by.

Its a bad system and its no surprise that it’s failing.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

Wow, talk about ye have little faith…[/quote]

I know, it’s like something from Fox news.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yes. Americas economic system is designed to make a few people very rich while the vast majority barely get by.

Its a bad system and its no surprise that it’s failing.[/quote]
Uhhh, the system that’s failing is not the American one. It’s the increasingly community based collectivist one that has been increasingly erected in it’s place especially the last 50 or so years. Of course that’s is a bit of an oversimplification (though not by much), but why can’t people see this?

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yes. Americas economic system is designed to make a few people very rich while the vast majority barely get by.

Its a bad system and its no surprise that it’s failing.[/quote]

Mmmmmm…kool-aid is goooooooood…

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

Wow, talk about ye have little faith…[/quote]

I know, it’s like something from Fox news.[/quote]

Right! Or CNN, or MSNBC, or…

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

Wow, talk about ye have little faith…[/quote]

I know, it’s like something from Fox news.[/quote]

Right! Or CNN, or MSNBC, or…
[/quote]

Fair comment, they are all ridiculously over dramatic ‘the sky is falling’

– In 1950, the ratio of the average executive’s paycheck to the average worker’s paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.

– Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 - the highest rate in 20 years.

I’ll have to try to find the article again, but I read some economic group/think tank’s ranking of small business ownership among–I want to say–20 something nations. We were second to last :frowning:

If they’re talking about the destruction of the middle class, shouldn’t they be comparing the 2009 numbers to, say, 1959 instead of 2007? Because otherwise, it seems they’re just talking about the systematic effects of of the global financial crisis.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Damning statistics.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here's-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA[/quote]

Yep. I’ve been complaining about this on this site for years. Especially before the 2008 elections.

By the way, I thought you were going to sit back and watch the “snakeoil” folks?

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yes. Americas economic system is designed to make a few people very rich while the vast majority barely get by.

Its a bad system and its no surprise that it’s failing.[/quote]

Lol @ “barely get by.” If by barely get by you mean has plenty of food to eat, a roof over their head and a cell phone than I agree, the vast majority “barely get by.”

America’s poor are much better off than the poor in the vast majority of other countries, yet somehow our system is failing?

Also, who here considers themselves poor or rich? The vast majority of people I know are still in the middle class.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yes. Americas economic system is designed to make a few people very rich while the vast majority barely get by.

Its a bad system and its no surprise that it’s failing.[/quote]

Lol @ “barely get by.” If by barely get by you mean has plenty of food to eat, a roof over their head and a cell phone than I agree, the vast majority “barely get by.”

America’s poor are much better off than the poor in the vast majority of other countries, yet somehow our system is failing?[/quote]

How much do you make a year?

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yes. Americas economic system is designed to make a few people very rich while the vast majority barely get by.

Its a bad system and its no surprise that it’s failing.[/quote]

Mmmmmm…kool-aid is goooooooood…
[/quote]

LMAO!!!

Dont play that game with me, boy.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yes. Americas economic system is designed to make a few people very rich while the vast majority barely get by.

Its a bad system and its no surprise that it’s failing.[/quote]
Uhhh, the system that’s failing is not the American one. It’s the increasingly community based collectivist one that has been increasingly erected in it’s place especially the last 50 or so years. Of course that’s is a bit of an oversimplification (though not by much), but why can’t people see this?[/quote]

Could you elaborate on this, please?

And, Lank, by “barely getting by” I mean living paycheck to paycheck, working a full time and a part time job, often having to borrow money to make ends meet, having little to no money saved for retirement, the majority of the pay they do get going to funding a credit system designed to exploit them, having no backup for emergencies, little to no healthcare coverage, etc.

And, yes, the system is built around advantage breeding advantage and disadvantage breeding disadvantage. Simple examples: you come from an affluent family, I come from a low income family – which of us can afford a nice suit to wear to a job interview? Which of us could go to college, without funding it ourselves, to focus on school? If we both wanted to open a business, which of us would have a cosigner to help us get a loan to do that (if you even needed a loan)? If your family can buy a house for 300k outright, how much does that cost compared to the total cost of a mortgage for the same house? What about financing a car? How about medical bills?

I also like how what I’m talking about is the sky falling and sippin the cool aid… yet all the stats seem to agree.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
And, Lank, by “barely getting by” I mean living paycheck to paycheck, working a full time and a part time job, often having to borrow money to make ends meet, having little to no money saved for retirement, the majority of the pay they do get going to funding a credit system designed to exploit them, having no backup for emergencies, little to no healthcare coverage, etc.

And, yes, the system is built around advantage breeding advantage and disadvantage breeding disadvantage. Simple examples: you come from an affluent family, I come from a low income family – which of us can afford a nice suit to wear to a job interview? Which of us could go to college, without funding it ourselves, to focus on school? If we both wanted to open a business, which of us would have a cosigner to help us get a loan to do that (if you even needed a loan)? If your family can buy a house for 300k outright, how much does that cost compared to the total cost of a mortgage for the same house? What about financing a car? How about medical bills?
[/quote]

Are these hypothetical questions or are you assuming I come from an affluent family? How much I make is irrelevant, but I will tell you that I make more than both of my parents (not combined) at the measly age of 25. The opportunities are out there for poor people to become successful, if you haven’t seen enough of those stories you must be trying really hard not to see them.

And sure, many people do live paycheck to paycheck, many times by choice because they have no discipline or self restraint. They “need” a cell phone which comes with a 70/month payment, they “need” a newer car worth another 250/month payment.

Many people could get by with less and save money but choose not to.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I also like how what I’m talking about is the sky falling and sippin the cool aid… yet all the stats seem to agree.[/quote]

It’ll take some research on my part but give me a day or two and I’ll pull up some stats that will disagree.