At the end of week 4 into a 12 week Test E cycle I got basic blood work. Current stats are 48 years, 6’2", 230lb, ~18% BF. I’m doing 250mg Test E every 3 days. I have Adex and HCG on hand, but I have not taken either yet.
Lipids
CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 205 MG/DL (100-199)
TRIGLYCERIDES 58 MG/DL (0-149)
LDL/HDL RATIO 2.8 (0-3.6)
I really haven’t had any negative side effects. A tiny bit of nipple soreness and some night sweats, but libido has gone through the roof, going great in the gym. I feel fantastic. That said the Estradiol is quite high and has me worried a little. Any thoughts? Should I start the Adex to being down Estradiol or just go with the flow since there are no noticeable sides?
Two schools of thought on that. One is “man that’s a high number, you can bring it down a little bit and it won’t hurt you”. The other is “if it’s working then why mess with it?”. Many guys let their e2 run higher when on cycle. Estradiol is very anabolic, so you want to have a healthy amount. But how much? Depends on the individual. I say let it ride until you get symptoms and treat as needed from there. But if you’re pleased so far and not having any issues then don’t mess with things too much.
So what? His T is 2.5 higher than the reference range. What does that indicate? Is he the hulk?
Drugs should be used to treat symptoms…he’s not experiencing any symptoms to treat…so why take anything until something happens?
You’re examples are purely hypothetical while I on the other hand have a living breathing example in @yorkbarbell. I’ll admit it’s anecdotal but here he is nonetheless. There are others on here that follow the exact same method of E management and are fine.
I could ask you the same question. Do you take aspirin if you don’t have a headache?
Do you honestly think that someone with a blood pressure of 18 wouldn’t exhibit ANY effects?
My point is a the one @physioLojik has been making. If you’re increasing your test levels to supraphysiological levels then a corresponding increase in E levels is to be expected
Both drugs were created to treat breast cancer in women…so whats the point?
I suspect you want me to say that Adex is an suicidal aromatase inhibitor and stops the conversion of testosterone into estrogen.
Nolvadex on the other hand is not an AI, it’s a SERM which means Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator, which is just a fancy term that means it binds to the estrogen receptors in breast tissue and prevents estrogen from getting there.
Now that we’ve got that out of the way let me address you’re repeated insistence that e2 is a female hormone…I don’t want to put words in your mouth but you keep saying that as if estrogen in men is a bad thing. I’ll simply insert text from Pubmed here: “…estradiol, the predominant form of estrogen, also plays a critical role in male sexual function.”
So let’s not be so hasty in running out and gobbling up arimidex like breakfast cereal.
My assertion is that the OP, a user of AAS, presents with elevated E2 numbers…he reports NO other side effects, NONE. What do we do? Do we suggest he hop on Adex? Why?
Now if he has said 'hey guys…I’m having libido issues and I’ve developed a set of B-cups, what do you think?" my response would have been exactly like yours “hop on a little adex or Nolva” but he’s not reporting ANY problems.
More drugs are not the answer for a non-existent problem.
If he’s asymptomatic then there is no reason to treat it. On balance, for someone whose goal is muscle growth, high e2 is better than low e2. He’s feeling good and making progress with no negative side effects. You treat the person, not the number.
I can understand the idea of addressing the high E2 test result, but I don’t think high cholesterol is an accurate comparison. We know the the side effect of high cholesterol is increased risk of CVD. There may not be any noticeable symptoms of that until you actually have CVD and that symptom may be a heart attack or stroke. So it makes a lot of sense to treat the test result. However, with E2 the symptoms are things like gyno, moodiness, etc. Those seem to be low risk and easily identifiable symptoms. They also have a known cause which eventually will be gone. Unless there is some long term health concern associated with a high E2 level that should only exist for a few months at most I don’t see the need to add more pharmaceuticals to the mix.
There are lots of examples of blood test results that are high or low and the doctor will often take a wait and see approach if there are no symptoms.
Quick update. Within a couple of days of having this discussion I started getting this flushed/hot feeling and I felt a bit jittery or anxious. Kind of like having a few cups of coffee on an empty stomach. I figured the logical cause was the high E2. I immediately took 1/2 a tablet of Adex, .125mg. Maybe felt a little better. Then decided to try .25mg on injection day. That did the trick. I’ve been continuing that protocol and I would say the symptoms are 95% gone and doesn’t bother me at all. I’m going to keep this up and in a couple weeks I’ll get blood work again. I suppose with an E2 that high it may have been inevitable that it would end up having a negative effect.
I got an 8 week on cycle blood test. Things are looking great from what I can tell. TT andf FT are both a bit higher than the 4 week blood work. The Adex is doing its job down to 75 from 188. Still on the high side, but I have no reason to tweak it further, I’m feeling great and well on my way to achieving my goal.
Me too, there are two camps of people. First one believes lab ref ranges and the second believes high T must be accompanied with high E, kinda like high T = high E. Sure too low estrogen is the worst scenario, but I’m not sure all about ‘let your E run wild while on cycle thing…’.