T Nation

Microsoft Vista

Anyone have any thoughts, concerns, comments on the upcoming Vista operating system? I’m curious since I just purchased a new computor that comes with a free upgrade to Vista when it becomes available on the 30th. and I’m not sure if I want to run it.

Hmmmm.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts, concerns, comments on the upcoming Vista operating system? I’m curious since I just purchased a new computor that comes with a free upgrade to Vista when it becomes available on the 30th. and I’m not sure if I want to run it.

Hmmmm.[/quote]

We have a few licenses running at work.

I’d wait.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts, concerns, comments on the upcoming Vista operating system? I’m curious since I just purchased a new computor that comes with a free upgrade to Vista when it becomes available on the 30th. and I’m not sure if I want to run it.

Hmmmm.[/quote]

these aren’t your only options, what do you use the computer for? what is your technical knowledge level? i’m a big advocate of linux, but i do know its not for everyone.

I ran out and bought Windows ME the first day it was on the shelves. I will never make that mistake again.

I waited until after XP SP1 came out before I ever used it, or put it on a machine I built for others.

I’ll do the same with Vista. Microsoft tends to like to make people pay good money for the opportunity to Beta test their latest offering.

Linux is a great alternative, but my business software won’t run on the linux.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

I’ll do the same with Vista. Microsoft tends to like to make people pay good money for the opportunity to Beta test their latest offering.
[/quote]

damn,rings true though

and i’ve never heard people compliment linux

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I ran out and bought Windows ME the first day it was on the shelves. I will never make that mistake again.

I waited until after XP SP1 came out before I ever used it, or put it on a machine I built for others.

I’ll do the same with Vista. Microsoft tends to like to make people pay good money for the opportunity to Beta test their latest offering.

Linux is a great alternative, but my business software won’t run on the linux. [/quote]

I agree, Micro$oft tends to announce their release dates too early, then push them back a few times, and still end up releasing a product that’s not been tested thoroughly. Vista will be a nightmare through and through. I’d go with Linux, the desktop capabilities of distros like Ubuntu/Kubuntu are nearly up to par with Windows and easy to use, even for the non-technical/inexperienced.

Rainjack, what kind of business software are you running that you can’t find an alternative in the linux, free/oss world? I’ve heard that quite a few times and haven’t yet been unable to find a linux solution. If you’re interested, you may want to pick up this month’s issue of Linux Journal, the entire issue is devoted to window->linux migration and mitigating the inherent problems.

Jay

[quote]jmwintenn wrote:
rainjack wrote:

I’ll do the same with Vista. Microsoft tends to like to make people pay good money for the opportunity to Beta test their latest offering.

damn,rings true though

and i’ve never heard people compliment linux

[/quote]

um, are you serious? Linux is the number one server OS in the world right now and is quickly gaining market share in the desktop and workstation markets. It’s free, community developed, community supported, secure, stable, and robust as hell. If you’ve never heard people compliment it, you’re either not listening, or you’re talking to the wrong people.

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
um, are you serious? Linux is the number one server OS in the world right now and is quickly gaining market share in the desktop and workstation markets. It’s free, community developed, community supported, secure, stable, and robust as hell. If you’ve never heard people compliment it, you’re either not listening, or you’re talking to the wrong people.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, it’s still too hard for Joe Average to install by himself and is rarely available as a pre-installed option when Joe buys his computer.

Everyone I know who’s able to install and run Linux is also savvy enough to run Windows without getting infected by virus or spyware.

Last time I checked (maybe 6 months ago) Ubuntu had made great progress in simplifying the install process, but there is still quite a bit of unsupported hardware out there, and when Joe calls his friend (who only knows Windows) for help, he gets the answer “reinstall Windows.”

I can neither Confirm nor Deny. But I had read somewhere that the NSA had helped MS in developing the Vista OS.

Maybe that’s just the conspiracy freak in me. But I most certainly remember reading this.

Great, now I have to move again, I think they found me!

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
Rainjack, what kind of business software are you running that you can’t find an alternative in the linux, free/oss world? I’ve heard that quite a few times and haven’t yet been unable to find a linux solution. If you’re interested, you may want to pick up this month’s issue of Linux Journal, the entire issue is devoted to window->linux migration and mitigating the inherent problems.

Jay[/quote]

I am an accountant, and I have used the same software package (integrated general ledger, fixed assets, and tax returns) for the last 7 years.

I have asked them about a linux version, or even a unix version, but they only program on the windows platform.

Migrating that much data to a new software package would be a nightmare, so I am pretty much stuck with what I have.

I was running Knoppix at one time. I liked the cleaner interface and how I never seemed to be plagued by errors. After running only windows for years, I’m beginning to get frustrated.

By the way, I heard vista already had a problem with security in the testing stages that allowed people to get into your information.

I agree 100% with MS beta testing on paying customers, it’s usually sp2 that is the GA code.

I’m running SLED 10 ( http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/ ) at work, the install was faster and easier than XP and I’d say anyone who can do more than turn on their computer can install and run it. Comes with email, browser, IM and Office built in, and the remote desktop I can run Windows apps from a terminal server if I need to.

[quote]ZedLeppelin wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts, concerns, comments on the upcoming Vista operating system? I’m curious since I just purchased a new computor that comes with a free upgrade to Vista when it becomes available on the 30th. and I’m not sure if I want to run it.

Hmmmm.

these aren’t your only options, what do you use the computer for? what is your technical knowledge level? i’m a big advocate of linux, but i do know its not for everyone.[/quote]

Mainly my computer is used for the small home inspection biz I run out of my home, putting together power point trainings for the fire dept, internet porn, personall finaces, music, and some movies. My inspection reporting system is a web based system so upgrading has definitely increased the speed at which I can produce a report.

I think I’m gonna hold off on running vista for a while. I just think there’s gonna be too many issues right out of the gate. Plus, to answer your question, I’m not exactly a computer genius. I get by, but that’s about it.

Thanks guys

[quote]pookie wrote:
m0dd3r wrote:
um, are you serious? Linux is the number one server OS in the world right now and is quickly gaining market share in the desktop and workstation markets. It’s free, community developed, community supported, secure, stable, and robust as hell. If you’ve never heard people compliment it, you’re either not listening, or you’re talking to the wrong people.

Unfortunately, it’s still too hard for Joe Average to install by himself and is rarely available as a pre-installed option when Joe buys his computer.

Everyone I know who’s able to install and run Linux is also savvy enough to run Windows without getting infected by virus or spyware.

Last time I checked (maybe 6 months ago) Ubuntu had made great progress in simplifying the install process, but there is still quite a bit of unsupported hardware out there, and when Joe calls his friend (who only knows Windows) for help, he gets the answer “reinstall Windows.”

[/quote]

honestly, I find the ubuntu install process more straightforward than the windows install. It’s really not very hard (although I have a degree in computer science, so I guess I have a skewed perspective).

And honestly, the amount of unsupported hardware is not nearly as vast as it used to be, even as far back as last year. Nvidia and ATI both provide pretty solid linux drivers now, most onboard sound works fine under ALSA, as do most extra sound cards. The only really valid complaint I can see people having is the lack of games, and the lack of a tech support number to call when things go wrong.

But honestly, most people who aren’t hardcore gamers are happy with ps3/xbox360/wii, and most people just bitch about tech support being terrible anyway. Once you learn how to use google, most problems aren’t that hard to fix (unless you’re trying to do something really abnormal, which, if you’re not really a computer person, you probably shouldn’t do anyway).

Anyway, I think the biggest problem most people have to overcome when using linux for the first time is just the fact that it looks different. Same thing when Mac users switch to windows, or vice versa. People expect things to be in the same place or work the same way as on the system they’re used to.

I, for one, found OS X terribly clumsy and frustrating when I first started using it (being used to windows or a command line). Now I find it pretty efficient, although I’d make a few changes if I could. Same with windows, there are some things that work well, others I would like to change.

That’s one of the reasons I like the linux window managers so much (like gnome, kde, etc…) you can pretty much customize them to look and act however you like. Hell, I have a gentoo box running kde that looks and acts almost exactly like OS X’s aqua window manager, with a few tweaks.

Overall, any new or replacement program or operating system will take some getting used to, but I believe linux has finally gotten to the point where it’s usable as a desktop system for your reasonably intelligent user who’s willing to do a little bit of digging on occasion to figure something out.

Anyway, it’s late and I’m ranting on about one of my favorite topics. Sorry for the long-winded post.

Cheers,
Jay

p.s. regarding preinstalled linux, check out nick petreleys column in this month’s linux journal, he talks about how the inevitable bombing of Vista will make a lot of room in the market for linux desktops.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Unfortunately, it’s still too hard for Joe Average to install by himself and is rarely available as a pre-installed option when Joe buys his computer.

Everyone I know who’s able to install and run Linux is also savvy enough to run Windows without getting infected by virus or spyware.

Last time I checked (maybe 6 months ago) Ubuntu had made great progress in simplifying the install process, but there is still quite a bit of unsupported hardware out there, and when Joe calls his friend (who only knows Windows) for help, he gets the answer “reinstall Windows.”

[/quote]

IS there still a lot of command line crap you have to do with the newer linux versions?

I am not a command line fan. I think that’s where a lot of people just lose interest in linux. I know it is for me.

I’m not sure how different the underlying Vista OS is from XP. My understanding is that there were a lot of user interface changes. Although I guess the same thing could be said about the Win 2000 to XP upgrade.

The biggest OS move Microsoft has made to date was Win 2000. The integration of the 16 bit Win 95 interface and compatibility with the relatively stable NT OS was big.

In theory the upgrades after Win 2000 should not have been a huge end user issue. Also for most users with brand name PCs (Dell, Gateway, HP, etc.) the upgrade to Vista should not be a problem.

The advise to wait for the first SP is very sound. I personally like XP with mozilla apps.

[quote]jerryiii wrote:
I’m not sure how different the underlying Vista OS is from XP. My understanding is that there were a lot of user interface changes. Although I guess the same thing could be said about the Win 2000 to XP upgrade.

The biggest OS move Microsoft has made to date was Win 2000. The integration of the 16 bit Win 95 interface and compatibility with the relatively stable NT OS was big.

In theory the upgrades after Win 2000 should not have been a huge end user issue. Also for most users with brand name PCs (Dell, Gateway, HP, etc.) the upgrade to Vista should not be a problem.

The advise to wait for the first SP is very sound. I personally like XP with mozilla apps. [/quote]

holy shit, another rhode islander!!! I guess I’m no longer the only one.

I believe Vista is a lot more than just UI changes. It was developed on the Windows server 2003 code base and boasts completely redesigned networking, audio, print, and display sub-systems. There are a lot of UI differences, but the biggest changes are to the underlying OS, hardware abstraction layer, and security (in reaction to XP’s gaping security holes). Considering M$ has been working on it in one form or another since 2001, before the release of XP, and changed their entire development lifecycle to build it, I can’t say I expect much.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
IS there still a lot of command line crap you have to do with the newer linux versions?[/quote]

I haven’t yet seen a Linux distro where you don’t have to go to the command line eventually… or at the very least need to edit a few text files to change a configuration.

It’s pretty much the case for everyone who isn’t “into” computers. I don’t blame them; for someone who’s not interested, computers are still much too complicated.

[quote]pookie wrote:
rainjack wrote:
IS there still a lot of command line crap you have to do with the newer linux versions?

I haven’t yet seen a Linux distro where you don’t have to go to the command line eventually… or at the very least need to edit a few text files to change a configuration.

I am not a command line fan. I think that’s where a lot of people just lose interest in linux. I know it is for me.

It’s pretty much the case for everyone who isn’t “into” computers. I don’t blame them; for someone who’s not interested, computers are still much too complicated.

[/quote]

honestly, you should be able to install and run ubuntu linux without ever using the command line, although some things are easier or faster to do via the command line. I honestly find it easier to use the shell rather than click around with the mouse, but I’ve been doing it for years, so I’m very familiar with all the commands and shortcuts (plus I type a lot faster than I can mouse around and click).

[quote]pookie wrote:
It’s pretty much the case for everyone who isn’t “into” computers. I don’t blame them; for someone who’s not interested, computers are still much too complicated.

[/quote]

I build computers for people as a hobby/side business. I have just never been into the dos prompt, command line, or having to know the right syntax to open, or copy a file.

I was not into computers until 1995 - right before Win 95 came out - so I missed the whole dos thing by a good 5-6 years.