Couple quick reads on that approach:
Couple quick reads on that approach:
Valid points. I appreciate the feedback.
I’m having a hard time finding studies or real papers on a low dosage for endurance use.
I’ve read the thread on the above and not many people agree with it.
I don’t think i’d end up where i am today, if I continue on with a healthy lifestyle. As mentioned, this is not about gains, it’s about a kickstart.
Why are downsides limitless if a PCT is undertaken?
Pct doesn’t always work, or sometimes it only gets you partially back. Pct can take a long time to get back where you were before. Most of the time it works, but there is risk involved.
You will feel way worse than you currently do when you come off. Your training will suffer for awhile after. This is where you will lose what you gained.
You need to provide more background. How old, are you elite in your sport, are you done with having kids?
They don’t cycle trt for a reason. If your free t is low, maybe trt could be answer depending on your answers to those questions.
I’m 39, 6’, 195lb Active, play hockey multiple times a week and run but have been lacking the motivation after a couple years on the road to get to my previous level of energy and fitness. I don’t want anymore kids, but don’t want to be in a situation where I would permanently damage my body
The reason i’m considering this particular cycle is because of a friend who is currently on it. He’s not looking to get massive but increase motivation, mood, and quality of life by restoring T levels to that of his youth and it appears to be working for him so I’m intrigued.
Here’s an interesting clinical study on PCT post 12 week cycle:http://www.medibolics.com/pdfs/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf
Discussion as well: http://www.medibolics.com/pdfs/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf
The T levels reach 1500 at height, so I assume they were on a 150-200mg weekly, but it doesn’t say.
Although a small study, it’s good to see an actual study, in the end everything returned to normal.
You should get full blood work done. Total t, free t, shbg, e2, lh, fsh. I might be missing a few items in that list.
Your total t is not super low, but if your free t is low, you will get the symptoms you are describing. There are cases of people having higher total t than you, but because of high shbg, they have low free t.
100 mg of test a week, might make your levels lower than they are now (depends on your shbg, and overall size). In general, the average man will get 585 ng/dl on 100 mg of test a week with two injections. See this thread for the discussion.
Lots of variability in those values, but that is the average. You really are not going to get much out of this.
You may feel better for twelve weeks, but I really doubt you will end up with higher levels naturally after pct. If you want to do this, really think hard about it, and if it is right, just do trt.
Thanks for the link.
Not looking to increase my normal levels with this, nor do I expect higher levels once completing PCT. I just don’t want to have lower than normal levels at current once completing.
I want a 12 week boost to get back into a workout routine, shed a couple pounds, get my endurance back and complete the cycle having my levels and body return to normal.
I’ll head back to the dr and get some better bloodwork done. My test last week only gave me the one testosterone level.
This - end of thread.
If you want to get you motivation and energy levels back, why not go back to basics? Clean up your diet, practice some meditation and soul work, and force yourself to run 1 mile a day for two weeks.
I never understand when people start a thread and ask for advice then when people give them the advice they defend the same post they wanted critiqued. When I ask for advice on something its because I haven’t made my mind up and most likely the opinions of a few wise people is what will sway me in one direction. I suggest you take the advice of what these people have told you. Regardless about what you have read from that one body builder who has a forum and spins all these futuristic ideas of how to use gear never forget there is a true and proven method that works. And for someone just starting its probably best to stick to that
T does not work the way you think it does. You are just going to F yourself up.
Its no skin off my nose if you choose to go down the path you discribed just remember we tried to warn you.
I’m simply trying to have a constructive discussion. You’re absolutely right, I know nothing about it, which is why i’m here.
You all make it sound like T is used for the sole purpose of achieving massive gains and as soon as you’re off, the balloon is popped and you shrivel up.
I’m looking to use T for its benefits. Improved mood, concentration, energy, etc.
I want to bring my level to around the ~1000 range. I’m at 500, that’s twice as high as I am now, i’m not sure why the pushback and surely there’s benefits to being at that level.
Maybe someone can suggest dosing and PCT plan to get me to that level - enlighten me.
You say this yet you seem to have made up your mind already, regardless of the recommendations a few people very experienced in the use AAS have set out for you.
Sorry but why would you risk all the possible negatives of T use (potentially not even returning to your original 500ng/dL levels after pct is just one) just for a tiny boost to your performance and motivation for a couple months?
To me this feels like your trying to take a short cut rather then assessing your diet and training and making the nessessary changes in your overall lifestyle to better yourself. Yes it might be hard for a few weeks but once your in a routine and seeing changes you’ll thank yourself.
From a trt stand point this would make sense, but from a cycle stand point it makes no sense at all. Whatever improvements you do make on 100-150mg a week will be negligible once pct is finished plus you’ll be feeling worse then you are now during pct, which if you aren’t able to motivate yourself to keep pushing once your t nosedives you will end up back to square one. That, personally, doesnt seem like a worthwhile risk.
There are other compounds out there that deliver the same benefits; have you considered a pre-workout?
Hardly. The more I read, the more I question everything. And I don’t see why not wanting to go from 500 to 3000+ level is something to be given pushback on. If the come down is so harsh, as reiterated many times, why would I want to blow my levels through the roof and come down that much harder?
As much as I appreciate the “bro-science” feedback, surely there has to be a sweet spot and this study outlined exactly what I was looking to achieve, moderate T level, and a return to normal levels after PCT, have a read: http://www.medibolics.com/pdfs/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf
Exactly, I would never want to do that. It’s not worth permanently damaging my body chemistry. I’m not sure why it would be for anyone.
That’s rich. Everyone taking T is looking for a short cut (unless for legit TRT), let’s not kid ourselves.
Thanks for everyone’s time. Definitely not going to be proceeding with anything.
It’s not a short cut if it’s the only way there.
I personally think people should have a mountain of knowledge on training, diet, and gear use before using aas.
If your weak, and small before aas, you will be after too.
I think a point people are making is that 500 mg a week causes the same shutdown risk as 100 mg a week. You seem to think a 100 mg a week cycle is going to be faster and easier to recover from than a 500 mg a week cycle.
@yvr_cyp I am not suggesting you run out and buy these butyou migh want to do a bit of research and see if they might serve your purpose better.
-dbol mono was a very old trick runners uses to do.
-hCG mono or with a micro dose of anastrozole
IMO you do not want a TT of 1000. I think you will be running along and your legs will get the pump of your life (what all lifter want and love) but then you legs will cramp like they have never cramped before putting you on the ground.
If you really want to get smart and get out of the bro-science world you need a full blood panel to see where you truely are healthwise.
a baseline overview of your sex hormones, thyroid gland, adrenal function, metabolic function, cholesterol, prostate and overall health. It would include:
CBC (includes immune cells, red blood cells and hematocrit) CMP-14 (Includes kidney and liver function, glucose and electrolytes) Lipid Panel (LDL, HDL, Triglycerides) Testosterone free and total (LC/MS assay with no upper limit) Estradiol, Sensitive (LC/MS assay) DHEA-sulfate (Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate) TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) Free T3 (Free Triiodothyronine ) PSA (Prostatic Specific Antigen) LH (Luteinizing Hormone) FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone)
Good luck getting your PCP to convince your med insurance to pay for all of these.
Buying out of pocket is much easier.
Best of luck to you.
For many, PCT is the worst time. It takes weeks, and for a great part of that you’re practically a hypogonadal male with all its repercussions. You have low mood, low motivation, plus you lose some or all of what you gained. Then, it’s a matter of luck whether you’re restored to your original values or not. When the gains are massive, it’s a gamble some deem worthwhile to make. However, for minimum and temporary* potential gains, no one in their right mind would do this.
*=Ok, let’s suppose you do get some extra motivation and energy for a few weeks. Then what? For a few weeks, you WILL be lower than you are now. Afterwards, you will be at best where you are now. Where’s the gain?
Where’s the gain?
Well thats easy. That shinny metal he’s wearing around his neck from winning the race.
I’m joking of course. Just trying to bring a little levity into the discussion.
I’ve just learned a new phrase today. Cheers, man!
(EN is not my mother tongue.)
Nobody here is suggesting you use a high dose, no one. Were merely suggesting you rethink using AAS as the potential risks out way the rewards.
There is always a risk of never returning to original levels even on a low dose of 100mg.
This is exactly what im talking about ^ your going to have just as rough of a time coming off 100mg as 500mg, your endogenous t is being shut down on both. Just to clarify, that’s not suggesting you use a higher dose, it’s just bringing it into perspective for you.
Considering your problems could more the likely be changed with diet and training, yes I do believe it is a significant and unnecessary shortcut. Someone looking to put on size beyond their natural limit, no that’s not a shortcut.
I know this isnt what you want to read though everyone here is trying to help you