T Nation

Micro Dosing Test C


#1

Hi.

I’m a complete newbie, researching and trying to learn about T.

Looking for feedback on a 100mg week / 12 week Test Cyp cycle.

My current Test level is: 511ng/dl

I’d like to get it to around 800-1000ng/dl

My goal is to kickstart my body with energy and motivation by bringing my level to within a high-normal range.

My workouts are high-intensity interval training with a focus on cardio.

  1. What are your thoughts on this approach? Should it be pyramided or frontloaded?
  2. What would be effects of estrogen if taken at this dose?
  3. What are the considerations around a PCT program at these levels?

Thx.


#2

This is a bad idea for several reasons.

  1. You’ll shut down all production for a minimal bump in your total testosterone levels
  2. Once you pct you’ll be back down to your usual level, which seems like it’s not great for your goals
  3. You’ll lose most of the minimal gains you’ll make
  4. You’ll be back to where you were three months prior, only you’ll be a few hundred dollars poorer

There’s a reason that cycles are run the way they are. If you’re going to cease all natura testosterone production you need to get something from that risk. The something that you get is supraphysiological levels of test which help you build muscle mass. But you’re skipping the reward part and just getting the risk. It’s an asymmetric bet in the wrong direction.


#3

This makes alot of sense and is basically a plan i’m looking for: The Endurance Athlete

I’ll pull out some key points below.

My goal is to stay in upper limits of normal. I understand 100mg will shut down test production during cycle. I’m not looking to build mass, gain weight, etc. I want to energy, motivation, mood and recovery aspects of this approach.

  • 100mg of IM test per week will put most men into the upper quartile of the normal range and in fact it will put not a few above normal.

  • Why only 100mg some of you will say…because it will get most of you into the upper reaches of normal and you will not usually have any estrogen/water retention issues and you lipid profile will be normal and may even improve a bit. Also, you stay at the upper normal and do not drop in T as you always do with hard training.

  • 100-125mg of test IM(injected) per week. 10 grams per day of Androgel if you don’t like injections . Then get your T level checked. You can get it checked without a doctors script via the internet. If you T is at the upper reaches of normal …say at 900-1000ng/dl then consider this good for the endurance man. Try 100mg first then get your T checked in a few weeks…if it doesn’t do the trick then try 125mg.

  • With most men(not all) 100mg per week will give you a T of a lucky19 year and most importantly it will not drop with hard training like it ALWAYS does naturally. The low dose will also not mess with your lipid profile and usually not result in a high estrogen level either.

  • FRONT LOAD INITIAL DOSE.

For your first shot do 200mg as a “front load” …this will get your serum T up fast…then back off to your normal weekly dose.

IMPORTANT!!!**
TWICE WEEKLY INJECTIONS!

The half life of test testosterone cypionate or enanthate is about 6-8 days depending on
a couple factors. Serum T will reach it’s PEAK in about 48 hours after injection and then slowly drop. So for best EVEN blood levels of T, ESPECIALLY on the lowest recommended dose of 100mg/week, it is best to inject the weekly dose in two separate injections per week.

  • Stay on this dose for 12 weeks and then stop. A week after stopping IM test testosterone cypionate or enanthate, when your T level has dropped to low to mid normal then start taking Clomid . If you take it sooner it won’t do a thing.
    If you are using Androgel than start the Clomid on the third day after you last dose since androgels half life is short.

Day one do 100-300 mg and then do 50 a day for at least three weeks…NO LESS…I actually prefer 4 weeks. Clomid is an estrogen blocker and it blocks estrogens “shutting down” affect at the hypothalamus.
It will stimulate GnRH release from the hypothalamus…then this stimulates a sleeping pituitary to release lh - leutenizing hormone - …and this hormone will stimulate shut down testis to produce testosterone.


#4

This doesn’t make much sense to me. Couldn’t you just use the clomid to get high normal levels?


#5

No it’s not.

No. JFC. Was this written by someone who has any familiarity with how testosterone and its respective esters work? (I know the answer already)

This is a remarkably dumb idea. If you want to use 100mg of test to get to high-normal then do that. But you’re going to end up exactly where you are today in three months. Your upside is capped and your downside is limitless. Tell me what the benefit is and then tell me how it outweighs the risk.


#6

Good point.

Couple quick reads on that approach:



#7

Valid points. I appreciate the feedback.

I’m having a hard time finding studies or real papers on a low dosage for endurance use.

I’ve read the thread on the above and not many people agree with it.


#8

I don’t think i’d end up where i am today, if I continue on with a healthy lifestyle. As mentioned, this is not about gains, it’s about a kickstart.

Why are downsides limitless if a PCT is undertaken?


#9

Pct doesn’t always work, or sometimes it only gets you partially back. Pct can take a long time to get back where you were before. Most of the time it works, but there is risk involved.

You will feel way worse than you currently do when you come off. Your training will suffer for awhile after. This is where you will lose what you gained.

You need to provide more background. How old, are you elite in your sport, are you done with having kids?

They don’t cycle trt for a reason. If your free t is low, maybe trt could be answer depending on your answers to those questions.


#10

I’m 39, 6’, 195lb Active, play hockey multiple times a week and run but have been lacking the motivation after a couple years on the road to get to my previous level of energy and fitness. I don’t want anymore kids, but don’t want to be in a situation where I would permanently damage my body

The reason i’m considering this particular cycle is because of a friend who is currently on it. He’s not looking to get massive but increase motivation, mood, and quality of life by restoring T levels to that of his youth and it appears to be working for him so I’m intrigued.

Here’s an interesting clinical study on PCT post 12 week cycle:http://www.medibolics.com/pdfs/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

Discussion as well: http://www.medibolics.com/pdfs/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

The T levels reach 1500 at height, so I assume they were on a 150-200mg weekly, but it doesn’t say.

Although a small study, it’s good to see an actual study, in the end everything returned to normal.


#11

You should get full blood work done. Total t, free t, shbg, e2, lh, fsh. I might be missing a few items in that list.

Your total t is not super low, but if your free t is low, you will get the symptoms you are describing. There are cases of people having higher total t than you, but because of high shbg, they have low free t.

100 mg of test a week, might make your levels lower than they are now (depends on your shbg, and overall size). In general, the average man will get 585 ng/dl on 100 mg of test a week with two injections. See this thread for the discussion.

Lots of variability in those values, but that is the average. You really are not going to get much out of this.

You may feel better for twelve weeks, but I really doubt you will end up with higher levels naturally after pct. If you want to do this, really think hard about it, and if it is right, just do trt.


#12

Thanks for the link.

Not looking to increase my normal levels with this, nor do I expect higher levels once completing PCT. I just don’t want to have lower than normal levels at current once completing.

I want a 12 week boost to get back into a workout routine, shed a couple pounds, get my endurance back and complete the cycle having my levels and body return to normal.

I’ll head back to the dr and get some better bloodwork done. My test last week only gave me the one testosterone level.


#13

This - end of thread.

If you want to get you motivation and energy levels back, why not go back to basics? Clean up your diet, practice some meditation and soul work, and force yourself to run 1 mile a day for two weeks.


#14

I never understand when people start a thread and ask for advice then when people give them the advice they defend the same post they wanted critiqued. When I ask for advice on something its because I haven’t made my mind up and most likely the opinions of a few wise people is what will sway me in one direction. I suggest you take the advice of what these people have told you. Regardless about what you have read from that one body builder who has a forum and spins all these futuristic ideas of how to use gear never forget there is a true and proven method that works. And for someone just starting its probably best to stick to that


#15

T does not work the way you think it does. You are just going to F yourself up.
Its no skin off my nose if you choose to go down the path you discribed just remember we tried to warn you.


#16

I’m simply trying to have a constructive discussion. You’re absolutely right, I know nothing about it, which is why i’m here.

You all make it sound like T is used for the sole purpose of achieving massive gains and as soon as you’re off, the balloon is popped and you shrivel up.

I’m looking to use T for its benefits. Improved mood, concentration, energy, etc.

I want to bring my level to around the ~1000 range. I’m at 500, that’s twice as high as I am now, i’m not sure why the pushback and surely there’s benefits to being at that level.

Maybe someone can suggest dosing and PCT plan to get me to that level - enlighten me.


#17

You say this yet you seem to have made up your mind already, regardless of the recommendations a few people very experienced in the use AAS have set out for you.

Sorry but why would you risk all the possible negatives of T use (potentially not even returning to your original 500ng/dL levels after pct is just one) just for a tiny boost to your performance and motivation for a couple months?
To me this feels like your trying to take a short cut rather then assessing your diet and training and making the nessessary changes in your overall lifestyle to better yourself. Yes it might be hard for a few weeks but once your in a routine and seeing changes you’ll thank yourself.

From a trt stand point this would make sense, but from a cycle stand point it makes no sense at all. Whatever improvements you do make on 100-150mg a week will be negligible once pct is finished plus you’ll be feeling worse then you are now during pct, which if you aren’t able to motivate yourself to keep pushing once your t nosedives you will end up back to square one. That, personally, doesnt seem like a worthwhile risk.


#18

There are other compounds out there that deliver the same benefits; have you considered a pre-workout?


#19

Hardly. The more I read, the more I question everything. And I don’t see why not wanting to go from 500 to 3000+ level is something to be given pushback on. If the come down is so harsh, as reiterated many times, why would I want to blow my levels through the roof and come down that much harder?

As much as I appreciate the “bro-science” feedback, surely there has to be a sweet spot and this study outlined exactly what I was looking to achieve, moderate T level, and a return to normal levels after PCT, have a read: http://www.medibolics.com/pdfs/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

Exactly, I would never want to do that. It’s not worth permanently damaging my body chemistry. I’m not sure why it would be for anyone.

That’s rich. Everyone taking T is looking for a short cut (unless for legit TRT), let’s not kid ourselves.

Thanks for everyone’s time. Definitely not going to be proceeding with anything.


#20

It’s not a short cut if it’s the only way there.

I personally think people should have a mountain of knowledge on training, diet, and gear use before using aas.

If your weak, and small before aas, you will be after too.

I think a point people are making is that 500 mg a week causes the same shutdown risk as 100 mg a week. You seem to think a 100 mg a week cycle is going to be faster and easier to recover from than a 500 mg a week cycle.