T Nation

Michael Moores' Sicko

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/070621/21health.moore.htm

There is no question that we need to fix our system. Our insurance companies have too much power but this clown wants to swap one middleman for another. Is is movie as deceptive as F 9/11 or Bowling For Columbine?

Interviewer:
Do any of the 2008 presidential candidates offer a solution that you think is workable?

Moore:
No. Edwards is the only one who’s come out with a really detailed plan, and his plan’s no good because he wants to put taxpayers’ money into the private health insurance system. We need to cut out the middleman. Healthcare should be between the doctor and the patient. And if the doctor says something needs to be done, the government should guarantee it gets paid for.

The obvious solution is to have people pay the doctors directly for the services and have the government provide assistance to the poorest.

Insurance companes are raping us and the government will fuck it up like other governments have.

Why don’t we have tax free medical savings accounts that we can carry over year after year like a 401K?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

There is no question that we need to fix our system. Our insurance companies have too much power but this clown wants to swap one middleman for another. Is is movie as deceptive as F 9/11 or Bowling For Columbine?[/quote]

The audit will occur when it comes out, but Moore has the classic “boy-who-cried-wolf” problem - he has been so patently dishonest in the past, it is impossible to think he will tell the truth on anything in the future.

Apparently he has some footage of shenanigans in Cuba. Problem is, everyone knows you can’t film anything without government permission in Cuba, so Moore’s clips will be supremely staged.

But, legions of his sycophants will make him richer by paying for his dishonest garbage and will never see the irony of it.

That said, an interesting note - some state health care systems are now placing limits on treatment to obese people, making people over a certain weight ineligible (along with smokers). In another strange twist, Moore might actually ineligible for care in one of his vaunted socialist health care systems because he is too fat.

I didn’t like BOwling for Columbine and I didn’t care for F9/11 either, but this piece was actually interesting in the sense that he does a comparative study of five countries. He actually spends a lot more time showing the benefits of a better system than he does showing the evil of the current one. That is what makes this one fundamentally different from the others. It’s constructive!

I have no idea how your health system works, so I can’t really comment on that, but I highly recommend the movie. At one point, he shews a private meeting of Nixon with some of his staff and the revelations are stunning. I don’t wanna spoil it so I won’t say any further.

[quote]lixy wrote:
I have no idea how your health system works, so I can’t really comment on that, but I highly recommend the movie. At one point, he shews a private meeting of Nixon with some of his staff and the revelations are stunning. I don’t wanna spoil it so I won’t say any further.[/quote]

Oh, so it’s come out in Sweden already? I think it comes out here in on the 29th.

I will wait to see the movie before passing judgement.

Of course, we KNOW that he is already wrong because he might suggest that another country has a better health care system than the United States. After all, we always have the best of everything in the United States and if you dont agree with that, well, we won’t let you speak on an objective medium, like Fox news.

[quote]Moore:
Healthcare should be between the doctor and the patient. And if the doctor says something needs to be done, the government should guarantee it gets paid for.

Zap
The obvious solution is to have people pay the doctors directly for the services and have the government provide assistance to the poorest. [/quote]

Am I missing something here? Because it sounds like you and Moore agree nearly completely.

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Am I missing something here? [/quote]

It’s a medical condition. A reflex that forces Republicans to automatically disagree with Moore without considering his arguments.

It’s a severe case of close-mindedness.

Moore is an entertainer that panders to the anti-America crowd.

And yes, there’s a lot of America haters in America.

The boy who cries wolf is an appropriate analogy. Question the motives of the messenger before you give the message any value.

As screwed up as Moore and his believers may think the Health Care System is…

Just let a HUGE Government Bureaucracy (which would be required) start running it; with the ability to litigate against it greatly lessened.

As Americans, we simply do not have a “culture” that would tolerate a Government-run system.

Mufasa

[quote]kroby wrote:
And yes, there’s a lot of America haters in America. [/quote]

Wow. And I mean wow! McCarthy would be proud of you.

That line will always baffle me. I sure never heard of an anti-Swedish person or Italian hater. On the other hand, it used to be a favorite of the Soviets and still is extensively used by the Chinese and every other oppressive regime on the planet.

Even in a fucked up country like Morocco (with the Western Sahara and absolute monarchy) people would literally laugh at your face if you talked about Moroccan “haters of Morocco”.

Most absurd notion ever!

[quote]lixy wrote:
kroby wrote:
And yes, there’s a lot of America haters in America.

Wow. And I mean wow! McCarthy would be proud of you.

Most absurd notion ever![/quote]

Oh, now you presume to link me with McCarthy? Nice try, but it falls flat.

You may think it absurd, but I’m glad you learned something today.

[quote]lixy wrote:
kroby wrote:
And yes, there’s a lot of America haters in America.

Wow. And I mean wow! McCarthy would be proud of you.

That line will always baffle me. I sure never heard of an anti-Swedish person or Italian hater. On the other hand, it used to be a favorite of the Soviets and still is extensively used by the Chinese and every other oppressive regime on the planet.

Even in a fucked up country like Morocco (with the Western Sahara and absolute monarchy) people would literally laugh at your face if you talked about Moroccan “haters of Morocco”.

Most absurd notion ever![/quote]

If you ever called an Audtrian un-patriotic or un-Austrian he would not even laugh at you, he probably would not understand you.

[quote]orion wrote:
If you ever called an Audtrian un-patriotic or un-Austrian he would not even laugh at you, he probably would not understand you.[/quote]

Good one Orion!

The Moroccan would laugh 'cause the anti-X and Y-hater card is used extensively by the oppressive regime to muzzle the opposition and keep everybody in rank.

[quote]kroby wrote:

And yes, there’s a lot of America haters in America.[/quote]

Yes, there are - presumably a consequence of the self-loating that has to go on in the world’s most prosperous society. Look at the trust fund radicals, for example.

That said, Moore’s health care system wouldn’t even get a sniff in America, largely because, to borrow from P.J. O’Rourke: “if Moore thinks health care is expensive now, just wait until it is free”.

And in Moore’s world, what about the risk of moral hazard? We already have a crisis in this country of people not taking good care of themselves - obesity, etc. With Moore’s plan, what incentive is there to take responsibility for your own health?

[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
If you ever called an Audtrian un-patriotic or un-Austrian he would not even laugh at you, he probably would not understand you.

Good one Orion!

The Moroccan would laugh 'cause the anti-X and Y-hater card is used extensively by the oppressive regime to muzzle the opposition and keep everybody in rank.[/quote]

A Chinese official did that in a “Spiegel” when he discussed Tibetians.

He simply did not get or could not conceive that it said more about him than about his opposition.

Um, the last German speaking politicians to use “vaterlandslose Gesellen” were you know who…

[quote]lixy wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
Am I missing something here?

It’s a medical condition. A reflex that forces Republicans to automatically disagree with Moore without considering his arguments.

It’s a severe case of close-mindedness.
[/quote]

I think its the same kind of reaction that makes me want to stomp a mudhole in your ass every time i read one of your posts.

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Moore:
Healthcare should be between the doctor and the patient. And if the doctor says something needs to be done, the government should guarantee it gets paid for.

Zap
The obvious solution is to have people pay the doctors directly for the services and have the government provide assistance to the poorest.

Am I missing something here? Because it sounds like you and Moore agree nearly completely. [/quote]

He wants socialized medicine. I want the patient to pay the doctor directly and have the power of a consumer.

He wants the government to have the power.

I thing the government should only get involved to help people save money for medical expenses similar to a 401K and to help the poor people.

We both agree that the insurance companies are leeches and are pocketing far too much money and providing poor service.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
Moore:
Healthcare should be between the doctor and the patient. And if the doctor says something needs to be done, the government should guarantee it gets paid for.

Zap
The obvious solution is to have people pay the doctors directly for the services and have the government provide assistance to the poorest.

Am I missing something here? Because it sounds like you and Moore agree nearly completely.

He wants socialized medicine. I want the patient to pay the doctor directly and have the power of a consumer.

He wants the government to have the power.
[/quote]

Again, I must be missing something, because of the quotes you used, he doesn’t advocate ‘giving the government the power’. He says the government would become involved when a doctor deems it necessary. That would be placing power in the Doctor’s hands, but where the Doctor’s are paid directly by the people(as moore stated) the ‘power’ ultimately falls in the patients hands.

Do you have some other link/quotes you haven’t shared?

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
Moore:
Healthcare should be between the doctor and the patient. And if the doctor says something needs to be done, the government should guarantee it gets paid for.

Zap
The obvious solution is to have people pay the doctors directly for the services and have the government provide assistance to the poorest.

Am I missing something here? Because it sounds like you and Moore agree nearly completely.

He wants socialized medicine. I want the patient to pay the doctor directly and have the power of a consumer.

He wants the government to have the power.

Again, I must be missing something, because of the quotes you used, he doesn’t advocate ‘giving the government the power’. He says the government would become involved when a doctor deems it necessary. That would be placing power in the Doctor’s hands, but where the Doctor’s are paid directly by the people(as moore stated) the ‘power’ ultimately falls in the patients hands.

Do you have some other link/quotes you haven’t shared?[/quote]

And how is the money to transfer from “the people” to the doctor?

Will it grow wings and fly?

Will little elves collect it from the willing and transport it to medical facilities with their little elvish railroad?

And if " the people" tell those green clothed midgets to go fuck themselves, what then?

When doctors become greedy and order BS exams, what then?

What if patient and doctors conspire and rip off the public?

If a third party pays, would not a race be started which doctor is the most generous with other peoples money?

If not, why not?

Are doctors better people?

Makes medical training morally superior?

Hey, I have an idea. They could take a little bit of my pay each month, sort of like Social Security…so when we all are in our 80’s and really could use this money, it’ll be all gone, spent elsewhere.

Seriously, Orion, what’s your opinion on all of this? Government involvement? Pay your doctor yourself? 401K option? How do you think this should work?