Michael Moore...

Michael Moore is a fraud and a liar. He takes people and events and twists, spins, cuts and splices a film together to further his ideals. Bowling for Columbine was NOT a documentary (especially as defined by the Academy). This movie was some propoganda intended rile the public against certain groups and people. Watch the movie and look closely at Heston’s clothes when Heston is giving a speech. You will notice different ties, etc. Moore took several speeches over a span of several years and attempted to make it look like one speech given at some very sensitive time(s).

I also lived in Flint, MI for a few years and his movie “Roger and Me” completely misrepresented most people who live in Flint and made the city’s economy seem much worse than it was. In fact, Flint is on the uprise again (without the plant, thank you very much Mr. Moore).

Moore does not make documentaries. He makes movies staring himself, because he knows no one else is gonna hire that fat, greasy, loser to star in anything (not even gay porn).

And for those that still want to claim Bush stole the election, we have this little thing here called the Constitution. Now this sounds crazy, but it is the supreme law of the land, and guess what? You are not gonna believe this, it actually is very clear on who should have won that election…and guess what…the Supreme Court got it right!!! Maybe one should educate themselves on an issue before offering an opinion publically and looking like a complete dipshit. Moron.

I’ve supported this war to topple Saddam from the beginning, and I have very little sympathy with Arab sentiments, and I don’t give a shit about Michael Moore’s asinine Oscar speech. Let Moore or anyone else say whatever they want about that war–before, during or after it. That’s free speech. Free speech doesn’t require intelligence or good judgment (although a democracy needs those qualities to work). It’s not like these protestors are spitting on veterans, like in Vietnam, which is what I would call “not supporting the troops”.

And chrismcl, with due respect, when did Rick Mercer lose the right to use satire? Did Roosevelt blow up Auschwitz when he had the chance? No. We need people around to show us that we’re not infallible. We may be the greatest country in the world, but we’re still mortal. The Ayatollah was a maniac, but we screwed up and backed Saddam. If we don’t have people around to make fun of us, we’re more likely to make similiar mistakes in the future.

I think as americans, regardless of how we feel about the war, we have to show our support for the troops over their fighting. My brother is there right now so i get especially upset when talking about this subject. Iraq and the Iraqui people will be better off without Saddam. he is an evil egomaniac and tyrant. The whole reason that americans can live the incredible lives they do and be able to express their opinions like we are right now are because of our soldiers who fight for our freedom. so show a little respect for those of us who are more emotionally involved in this war and keep some of your harsher comments to yourself.
P.S.-squat-you have no idea what you’re saying

[quote]BabyDoll
04/07/03
12:12 PM

Nate Dogg: Moore produced the Academy Award winning “Bowling for Columbine”[/quote] Never heard of it or seen it. Doesn’t look like something I’d care about or would want to see.

[quote]and this is what he said during his acceptance speech:

“We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elects a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. Whether it’s the fiction of duct tape or fiction of orange alerts we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you. And any time you got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up. Thank you very much.” He recieved a mixture of jeers & applause. (Again, I personally like what he said, just not how & when he said it.) [/quote]

That is fucking great! Hey, whether you agree or disagree, that was a pretty damn good speech. And no, I’m not completely opposed to the war, but I am not in complete agreement with Bush’s ideas, beliefs or reasons for a variety of things. Nevertheless, sounds like Mr. Moore got a good piece of airtime to voice his opinion. Who cares where he decided to voice it. If you want to be heard, you have to do unorthodox things.

Babydoll he did get booed off stage by half his peers. Some of the other war protester did a nice job like Adrien Brody. Mr. Moore just acted like an ass.

I suggest everyone read

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

and it’s supporting documentation.

Then analyze Mr. Moores “Fictious Times” speech and wade through the irony.

The only real problem with Moore people take his pseudointellectual blatherings seriously. I find it amusing that the man made a “mockumentary,” in which he used fake footage and made things up, and received an Oscar in the documentary category (this is not even about the specious nature of his message).

And because people think “Bowling for Columbine” was actually a documentary, people in Europe and Canada actually believe it represents America. I read that some prof. in Germany was actually teaching a U.S. culture class and using it as fact-based source material. No wonder they think so poorly of us over there. Simply amazing.

Nate Dawg~~You seem to have enjoyed the speech. That’s smashing. If you wanna see it online…

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/THO303B.html

Fitone~~“Babydoll he did get booed off stage by half his peers.” Fitone, “jeers” = booing. So i realize it, thanks.

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Period.

ThinIce
USMC

“Smashing, baby! Smashing!”

That’s pretty funny, Babydoll.

ThinIce, no matter what, whether people are for or against the war, the one thing you should always count on is the fact that we will support our troops for doing what they are instructed to do, just like the fact that you may not agree with what someone says, but you will defend it to the death.

babydoll Adrien Brody was opposed to the war but he presented his postion better then Mr. Moore. Moore I thought was an ass. Brody was another actor voicing his opinon.

To nate dogg: Yes you have the right of freedom of speach and thats what our country is based on but there is a time to voice your opinon in a correct manner and there is a wrong way. Moore was distasteful and uncalled for at that time. When we just started the war.

Also we do have limits to our freedom of speach you can’t just yell “Fire!” in a crowd theater/club on the top of your lungs. Or if you burn the American flag out on the street see how fast a van winds up pulled up across the street of your house. So our freedom of speach is limited to certin degree.

Fitone sorry if this is rude, but you have an amazing talent for taking exactly what I say and regurgitating it back to me. I know Brody said it better. This is the second time I’m clarifying to you that I already said it in my initial post…gosh…You dont have to tell me what I’ve already posted! I shouldn’t bother replying but it’s frustrating when pple dont read things right.

All documentaries provide a slanted version of “the truth”. ALL OF THEM (sorry for the caps) including non-political documentaries. Also, a documentary without a strong point of view is a weak documentary. Just 2 facts about documentaries in general.

There is a tradition of making political speaches at the Oscars. At another point in time people would be complaining about Marlon Brando (complaining about our treatment of Native Americans). At least Moore’s speach had something to do with his award.

The next Moore documentary will supposedly show the documented links between the Bush and Bin Laden families. Do a search on Prescott Bush (Bush family patriarch) who laundered money for the Nazis (if I understand correctly). The Bush family is pretty shady. Did you know that Neill Bush (savings & loan scandal) was supposed to have dinner with Hinckley’s brother the day after the Reagan asassination attempt? (George Bush Sr, was VP and would have become president if Reagan had died). Things that make you go “hmmm”.

"Well…these aren’t millionaires fighting and dying in Iraq…and neither are their loved ones at home who just want them to be okay and come home… " EXACTLY. Did you know that only one Congressman has a son or daughter serving in the Gulf?

?To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.? (former president Theodore “Teddy” Roosevelt)

The thing is, if what Michael Moore says makes you think, then he has served his purpose.

It doesn’t matter if he is correct, it doesn’t matter if he is divisive that he stirs debate of any type is a good thing. But one thing i’ve noticed on this forum is that so many of you don’t want debate, don’t want divisiveness the world has to be packaged up like a conservative happy meal - guesswhat folks? It ain’t.

If you’re thinking critically then you should realise that the half-truths that Moore espouses are no better or worse than the half-truths that come from Rumsfeld. Was he, Moore, grandstanding at the Oscars? Of course. But so what - it’s Hollywood a place more plastic than a cosmetic surgeon’s catalogue.

People live for their complacency these days, they don’t want to know - especially if will involve them shifting their fat arse out of the Barcalounger and doing something.

For example:

I’ve heard numerous rants/ debates etc on who should be re-elected and if the result of the last election process represents the will of the people. I guess that depends if you consider a less than %75 turnout the will of the people.

I would guess that more than %75 of the population have an opinion on what Moore said, and if he gets a message out there and people start paying attention then that’s a good thing.

Someone erroneously stated that Moore represents the radical left and that you never hear from the right. You do - it’s called your government. And the moral majority etc. Moore is only painted as radical as he goes against the prevailing ideology of the state.

Now Boston stated that BFC contained a
vast array of half-truths and fabrications; but what else do you expect when a viewpoint is being presented, you present that evidence [or whatever] to support where you’re going, never have I heard Michael Moore say that he was being impartial - as opposed to a certain administration currently claiming to present all the “Facts”.

Makes you wonder really.

I guess I’ll now sit back and wait for the usual round of personal abuse I get for making a ‘liberal’ statement.

I just looove these posts. Specially this one from Tyler Durrden ;0) which states:

“So you have two options: you can either stop reading my posts or just pull your head out of your sorry ass. Have a good day.”

Isn’t it nice to see that his word is not to be contested AT START, that his argument is totally self-sufficient? His logic must be sooooo faultless…

I beg to differ. I think Durrden forgot a third option, which he will never say. It goes like this: “Or you could challenge me to explain my reasoning, scientifically, which means that I will have to bring facts to the debate table (and admit that I could be wrong and, GASP, could force me to think further and weigh other viewpoints before posting).” In other words, conseding the possibility that Durrden’s head is stuck in his own ass at start.

We all know this (option) will never happen. Thinking and putting one’s convictions subject to scrutiny and analysis creates doubt and deflates egos. It’s so much easier to have the knee-jerk, pavlovian, Fuck-You reflex, eh? Doing so totally changes to focus to the other, and liberates one of thinking before posting, eh?

As you can see, the thread is really not the problem. It’s the background mentality of Durrden’s type that contaminates it. I just hope that he does not represent the silent masses.

If you want to be heard, you have to do the unusual, especially when your opinion is not in the majority. It may have been distasteful or uncalled for at that time to some, but it wasn’t to all.

Yes, I have studied the first Amendment (among the rest of the Bill of Rights and Constitution) so I am familiar with that. Did he at any point yell “Fire!” or “Rape!” or “Bomb!” or anything that could have endangered himself or the people attending? Nope. Sure didn’t.

Like I said, I didn’t see it. I don’t watch any of those stupid award shows. And he’s not the only one that has used an award show to express an opinion. I believe MTV has experience with certain people doing and saying certain things, whether it was a majority opinion or not.

I saw the tape of Michael Moore’s speech after the fact. I think it’s funny, and it really doesn’t matter if I agree or disagree with what he said.

I may be for the war in some respects, but I’ve never been a fan of Bush or his ideas, beliefs and reasoning. So hearing Moore’s comments is quite refreshing.

Actually, when I heard that the one Dixie chick was coming under such scrutiny for what she had said about Bush, I was dumbfounded. I can’t believe she was forced to apologize. If I had more “celebrity” status and said something that people didn’t agree with, I would never apologize because it was not the opinion of the majority. For a society that expresses free speech and freedom in general, we sure have a problem hearing things we don’t necessarily want to hear, but things we may be thinking.

It’s just like Eminem. He said that he only raps about things people think but are too afraid to say. He’s right. I may not like all his music or lyrics, but he certainly does talk about things that I, or my friends, have talked about, experienced or seen at some point. To some, Marshal Mathers is evil. And to others, he is their hero. It all depends on what you are saying and whether it’s a majority opinion or not.

I’ve always been brutally blunt, honest and forward. And I have no problem with people who do the same. I don’t have to listen if I don’t want to. Same goes for everyone else.

“Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.”

Please, stop. C’mon now. Moore’s speach was good? It got its point across? What point was that? That he looked like an unkempt buffoon on a international platform and used it to mock the President of the United States by saying the Dixie Chicks are even against him? Wow. Talk about insightful.

And to all you Bush-haters or you more moderate Bush-dislikers, no one’s trying to deny anyone their precious little First Amendment right to protest. Even a drivelling fool like Moore has the right to use the Academy Awards to rant.

But enough’s enough already. We know you don’t like the war. We know you don’t like President Bush 'cause all he wants is oil. (BTW I hope all you people who use this war for oil argument drive four cylinder vehicles). We know how if you or someone you support were running the country, things would be so much better. We know how pacifist you are (though there have been numerous instances of violence and law-breaking in many of the protests throughout the country).

But please, go away for a little while, will you. Come back in about a month or two so the rest of the country can catch their breath and escape nightly news scenes of raggedly, unemployed mobs blocking city streets. And while you’re taking that two month hiatus, find a job and do something productive please.

  1. I drive an economical four-cylinder vehicle (And yes, I think SUV’s should be banned for their gas guzzling! How many people really need an SUV? I would rather have the gas available so we could get all the cool cars in Japan and have 100 octane or higher fuel for racing purposes).

  2. I have a job.

  3. I’m not petitioning against the war or laying in the road blocking traffic (Those damn hippies need to get a job and do something productive).

  4. I fully support our troops.

  5. Bush still sucks.

  6. I’m all for kicking Saddam’s ass and taking care of problems that threaten the U.S. and other countries.

  7. I hate the Dixie Chicks, and I could give two shits about Michael Moore, but they said what was on their mind. More power to them.

  8. I’m an asshole (as I’ve been told by others).

  9. I don’t plan on joining the armed forces, but give me a gun and tell me who to aim at, and I’ll pull the trigger.

  10. Who the fuck cares what I think anyway?

Dan C -

If Mr. Groove wanted an intellectual debate, he could have asked for one. He began the infantile mud-slinging so I fired back.

It’s not a matter of whether I am right or wrong, because no one is right or wrong with this issue. It is all a matter of OPINION. But if someone is going to attack me, dropping F-bombs like they’re going out of style in the process, I will tell him to take his head out of his ass without a second of hesitation.

So in conclusion, if you would really like to talk to me about Michael Moore, let me and the forum know what you think, and I’ll gladly respond with my view.