T Nation

Michael Jordan

Now I have no idea how true this is, but I have no reason to believe it’s not either. On top of being THE coolest commercial I have seen for quite some time, here are the exercises written on the whiteboard in the gym in this Michael Jordan commercial:

Military Press
Leg Curls
Bent Rows (single arm)
Deadlift (squat & stand)
Tricep Extensions
Jump Cats
Push ups
Squats (front)
External Rotation

I’m not sure what “squat & stand” or “jump cats” means, but it’s interesting to see “new” concepts like external rotation aren’t really THAT new.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PFUX5dkZMI

I thought the squat and stand was just like a note to remind the kids what a deadlift is. When I was first taught how to do deadlifts I was told “It is like a squat, except instead of starting from the top, you start on the floor and stand up”

Jump cats might be some variation of that old “do a pushup, jump into the air, drop back into a pushup” workout that I cannot remember the name of right now(but I know has a few names).

I assume a jump cat is the old super cat machine.

[quote]Malevolence wrote:

Jump cats might be some variation of that old “do a pushup, jump into the air, drop back into a pushup” workout that I cannot remember the name of right now(but I know has a few names).[/quote]

I believe you’re thinking of a “burpee”.

Michael Jordan was defiantly a hard worker, but I think his jumping ability was something natural that he, and most NBA players, are born with and never need to train.

[EDIT] Just saw the Ad. Wow. I was completely wrong.

Most basketball players NEVER mention the time they spend in the weight room. But if Jordan attributes his hops to his time under the bar, then he must have worked there to get them.

Personally, most basketball players I know never put in any hard work and just ride off talent. I’ve always been under the impression that for most successful basketball players, basketball is a sport that measures abilities you were born with and can’t acquire through hard work: time getting in better cardiovascular condition or getting better sprinting speed is time wasted since you won’t be great if you don’t have a good ‘feel’ for the game that can’t be learned.

Of course, I’ve never known any professional basketball players. Just college and high school kids.

Although I didn’t expect Jordan to spend much time under the bar, I just thought he spent oodles of time on the court sharpening his skills. Anyone who says that arguably the greatest athlete to ever live didn’t work that hard is blind. I just thought Jordan put his insane amount of dedication to this sport into stuff besides time in the weight room (jump training, running, scrimmages, drills, etc).

[quote]ready wrote:
Malevolence wrote:

Jump cats might be some variation of that old “do a pushup, jump into the air, drop back into a pushup” workout that I cannot remember the name of right now(but I know has a few names).

I believe you’re thinking of a “burpee”.
[/quote]

That’s the one! But as White Flash suggested, the Super Cat machine is more likely.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
basketball is a sport that measures abilities you were born with and can’t acquire through hard work: time getting in better cardiovascular condition or getting better sprinting speed is time wasted since you won’t be great if you don’t have a good ‘feel’ for the game that can’t be learned. [/quote]

I dont agree with you. IMHO besides hieght advantages you need to spend time working to physically condition your body and on the court to work on the phsyical and mental skills of the game. you Need both at the highest level. but i will admit wieght training is a less important part of basketball than a sport like football.

Michael Jordan did his best jumping long before he touched a weight.

i like the part in this one when Kobe is coming out of “The hole” chains dangling from the barbell…

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
basketball is a sport that measures abilities you were born with and can’t acquire through hard work: time getting in better cardiovascular condition or getting better sprinting speed is time wasted since you won’t be great if you don’t have a good ‘feel’ for the game that can’t be learned.
[/quote]

I disagree. You can learn how to handle a basketball and learn the finesse of the sport. Some people will ‘get it’ better than others, but this is no different than any other sport. This is also why there are so many sports, with so many different types of bodies and physical adaptations excelling throughout the gamut.

What, in your eyes, is a sport that has no genetic threshold and anyone can excel with simply hard work?

[quote]djwhizkid wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
basketball is a sport that measures abilities you were born with and can’t acquire through hard work: time getting in better cardiovascular condition or getting better sprinting speed is time wasted since you won’t be great if you don’t have a good ‘feel’ for the game that can’t be learned.

I dont agree with you. IMHO besides hieght advantages you need to spend time working to physically condition your body and on the court to work on the phsyical and mental skills of the game. you Need both at the highest level. but i will admit wieght training is a less important part of basketball than a sport like football.

[/quote]

The Highest Level of any sport is different than the college or high school level. From my personal observations of basketball players I’ve actually known, it seems like more often than not they’ve won conference or made all-state with very little effort and a lot of natural talent. For example, maybe only 20% of Wrestlers know what hard work is, but only 3% of basketball players know what hard work is.

Getting to the pro’s in basketball, and excelling there is something completely different. To play at the highest level of any sport requires a great deal of devotion and real work.

But I’m still shocked to see Kobe doing 2-Board Presses, Reverse Hypers, and Speed Squats and also hear Michael talking about getting in the gym. I’ve always been under the impression that even the top level basketball players were putting their work in on the court and maybe the track, but not doing much in the weight room.

Up until now all I’ve ever seen Pro Basketball players do is Light Leg Presses and a bunch of bullshit Bosu-Ball stuff that their trendy trainers have them do.

But I don’t expect you to agree with me. I said I was “under the impression.” Clearly, I’m wrong. And I’m glad I’m wrong. I’m exceedingly happy to see that it’s not enough to do a bunch of trendy Boso-Step-up functional training in order to be a World Class athlete.

But until today I thought the only person in the NBA who seriously lifted weights was Ben Wallace, and everyone else just spent that time in the weight room practicing their free throws (although that takes dedication, it’s not nearly as demanding as squats).

Well in High school it is a lot different. In High school, kids are still developing. Some develop faster than others, and achieve a notable advantage in a subject. This might be athletics, it might be math, or music…etc.

It balances out though, once they get to college, if they don’t develop the work ethic and commitment necessary to keep up with increased levels of competition, they stop winning real quick and become just another guy who “once scored 4 touchdowns in a single game”.

Basketball has 5 different positions, some require a lot of strength, some do not. It is less important for a point guard to lift heavy weights than it is for a center or a power forward. But even still, one of the reasons Jordan(and Kobe) have been so dominant is because they adequately combined strength training into their basketball training.

I don’t think you should be qualitatively trying to compare squatting to practicing basketball drills. Heavy Squats are more physically demanding than just about any activity you can think of, but so what? That doesn’t marginalize the fact that any activity, taken seriously, requires serious work.

Also, to be fair, Bosu Balls bullshit can actually be very useful for basketball players. Balance is supremely important on the court, and while they don’t do very much to improve your deadlift, a bosu ball can be used to train your balance and coordination.

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Also, to be fair, Bosu Balls bullshit can actually be very useful for basketball players. Balance is supremely important on the court, and while they don’t do very much to improve your deadlift, a bosu ball can be used to train your balance and coordination.
[/quote]

True, a bosu ball can train balance and coordination. On a bosu ball. The court doesn’t move.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Personally, most basketball players I know never put in any hard work and just ride off talent. I’ve always been under the impression that for most successful basketball players, basketball is a sport that measures abilities you were born with and can’t acquire through hard work:

Time getting in better cardiovascular condition or getting better sprinting speed is time wasted since you won’t be great if you don’t have a good ‘feel’ for the game that can’t be learned. [/quote]

You are absolutely false here. Do some athletes in any sport get by off sheer talent? Sure. But you better believe that it takes a ton of hard work to get to the top level of any sport. Do basketball players, generally, put as much time in the weightroom as some other sports? No, but that’s because basketball doesn’t demand as much strength as some other sports.

I’ve worked with D1 basketball players and you should see some of the conditioning they do in their pre-season training. Sets of squats are nothing compared to running suicides for an hour of practice.

I also think that the average person doesn’t understand the work you have to put into knowing your system and understanding offensive and defensive assignments. I think they just think it’s a bunch of lanky black dudes running and jumping up and down the court.

They don’t realize how many offensive sets you have to know and how much running halfcourt offense involves timing and being in the right place and how, defensively, you have to be able to account for every guy on the floor and know how and where to rotate, who to lay off of and let shoot and who to challenge.

Anybody playing at a high level in any sport is working their ass of in some form or another.

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Heavy Squats are more physically demanding than just about any activity you can think of
[/quote]

I’d actually disagree with this. Compared to conditioning workouts, heavy squats are fun!

[quote]djwhizkid wrote:

i like the part in this one when Kobe is coming out of “The hole” chains dangling from the barbell…[/quote]

It looks like he’s got 4 plates on there too

[quote]Michael570 wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
Also, to be fair, Bosu Balls bullshit can actually be very useful for basketball players. Balance is supremely important on the court, and while they don’t do very much to improve your deadlift, a bosu ball can be used to train your balance and coordination.

True, a bosu ball can train balance and coordination. On a bosu ball. The court doesn’t move.[/quote]

Har har har.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
basketball is a sport that measures abilities you were born with and can’t acquire through hard work: time getting in better cardiovascular condition or getting better sprinting speed is time wasted since you won’t be great if you don’t have a good ‘feel’ for the game that can’t be learned.[/quote]

Or maybe you’re just making excuses

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Absolute nonsense.

I used to do some basketball related workouts with Anthony Goldwire, whom most [if not all] of you have never heard of. He played at UofH, went undrafted and has played all over the globe and spent times with a few NBA teams [the Bucks,Spurs,Nuggets, and Wizards that I can think of]. He’d shoot a 1,000 jumpers just to get loose, then the workout began. Full speed pull-ups off the bounce, off the jab step, off the curl, over an outstretched defender, you name it. This was after running the track at memorial park [a little over 3 miles]. We’re talking around 4 hours of intense running,cutting, stopping and jumping with little rest. He lifted as well, but he did more maintenance and injury prevention stuff. This is a fringe NBA player who’s spent more time abroad than he has in his home country. This is very similar to most pro’s workout schedule. What I’m saying is that most work their asses off. FightingScott, you have no idea what you’re talking about on this.

I like how everyone clips out where I said “I’ve always been under the impression…”
and then flames me for what I used to think.

So I thought that NBA players spent their hard hours training on the court, not in the gym. I no longer think that.

So I think, and still think, that the majority of High School and College basketball players don’t really try that hard and aren’t very fit. I still think that. Cry me a fucking river if you think otherwise. Sure, there are exceptions to prove this wrong but I’m callin’ it as I sees it.

I didn’t mean to give the impression that I thought it was easy to be in the NBA. I meant to give the impression that it’s easy to breeze through high school basketball and garner success with all talent and no work.

This video changed my thoughts about how pro ball players spend their training time. I didn’t doubt they worked hard but I didn’t think they ever got under the bar.

But this video hasn’t changed what I think about most people who played basketball. I still think they’re pretty nonathletic and don’t work real hard.