[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
You might be surprised at how close they are in EVERY metric. Jordan passed and rebounded better than he got credit for… (also his sillyness with the wizards deflates these stats)
Indeed I am.
Thanks for posting that, very interesting.
[quote]gregron wrote:
Also the game was much different back then. They don’t let defenses mug guys like they used to. If MJ played in today’s game he’d average a lot more than he did.
^^this kind of points back to Sam’s post about Bron bouncing off contact. He is getting hit no where near as hard as guys were backin the day.[/quote]
This point gets overlooked far too much.
Yet MJ still was hitting close to or over 50% of his shots over half his career.
[quote]Teledin wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
Also the game was much different back then. They don’t let defenses mug guys like they used to. If MJ played in today’s game he’d average a lot more than he did.
^^this kind of points back to Sam’s post about Bron bouncing off contact. He is getting hit no where near as hard as guys were backin the day.[/quote]
This point gets overlooked far too much.
Yet MJ still was hitting close to or over 50% of his shots over half his career.[/quote]
When was hand checking banned? I dont think it would matter much to LeBald since he’s a beast, but remove it from Jordan’s game and watch the hell out.
Jordan. no one else is pulling off the ‘flu game’ in a finals anytime soon
[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Jordan. no one else is pulling off the ‘flu game’ in a finals anytime soon[/quote]
Just a rumor, it was a hangover game. Either way it’s impressive.
What because Jalen Rose said so?
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
What because Jalen Rose said so?[/quote]
You are aware that rumors are just speculation ?
Jordan took what Larry and Magic had done(bringing the NBA back from the dead and tape delays) and took it to the next level. He made basketball a global sport and did it all while having the pressure of carrying an entire league. He’s the reason shoe deals are what they are today and he was worth a ton of money to the city of Chicago, bringing in a ton of money to the city.
So its hard to put them in the same category, Jordan was an icon on a completely different level. And i agree with what Michael Wilbon said about us being prisoners of the moment, everyone see’s what Lebron is doing now and they forget just how great Jordan was. You could have the same moment type argument with Tom Brady and Joe Montana.
Even as incredible as Lebron’s point/FG% streak was, in 89 Jordan had 10 triple doubles in 11 games, he averaged 34pts, 11rbs, 11 assists while being 51% from the field. The one game he didn’t get the triple double, he had 40pts, 11 assists and 7 rebounds.
I have no doubt that if he wanted to Lebron could probably average 32 a night and edge out Durant for the scoring title every year. But that’s just not how hes made, he’s a hard worker but its that killer instinct Jordan had that Lebron even with his 2inch height, 40-50lb weight advantage will never duplicate.
I feel fortunate to be old enough to see both play and i can appreciate both but its hard for me to ever say that Lebron is the better basketball player. I do feel though that Lebron is physically the best player the NBA has ever seen, the combination of size, speed and strength is unlike anything i’ve ever seen personally.
[quote]spk wrote:
sam _sneed
the OP’s question was whos the better basketball player. you said jordan.
whats the better athlete got to do with the question? who cares if james can swim faster, ride a bike better, run the 10k faster, lift more weights, beat his ass in an mma fight, bowl better, shoot pool better. all that matters is who in your opinion is better at basketball…
rick berry was a top 50 basketball player of all time, and good enough to be on the pro tennis circut and pro golf circut and pro bowling circut… great athlete, but all that has nothing to do with his basketball playing… [/quote]
Reading comprehension fail. I’ll re-quote the OP for you and add some bold for ya:
[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
1)Who is the better basketball player will stay INCONCLUSIVE until Lebron has retired. At that point, we will be able to really have the debate. The real point of this post is #2.
2)“Lebron is bigger, faster, stronger… the better athlete.” I have heard this NONSENSE time and time again as of late. Lebron is clearly bigger and stronger. Jordan had the greater vertical leap (4-8" greater depending on the source). Greater vertical=superior lower body power to weight ratio, quicker first step. Who is the better athlete is also INCONCLUSIVE–they both have their relative strengths. [/quote]
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Lebron can’t create the space the way Jordan used to. He just doesn’t have that quickness and skill that Jordan had. Watch the old Jordan highlight reels and even when the defender is in his face all it takes is a jab step and couple dribbles and he ends up with an open look. Lebron relies and getting the first step, or just using his strength and size to get his shot off. It’s a mismatch no matter who guards him. Guards are to small and weak, forwards are to slow and still sometimes too weak. Despite what the commentators say, Lebron can’t score at will the way Jordan did. Even Durant is better than Lebron in that respect. [/quote]
Worth pointing out that James has never been about being a pure scorer and is clearly ahead of Jordan and Durant as both playmaker/passer and rebounder.
Now this one’s tougher. Sure, MJ has two DPOYs but he could never guard four different positions the way James can/does, and effectively at that. [/quote]
You’re right. Jordan can’t guard 4 positions but he can guard 3 positions better than Lebron. As cool as it is to be able to guard 4 positions very well, I’d rather have a guy who’s the BEST at guarding his position. Look at who Jordan had to compete with to get the DPOY. The best defensive center in history (Hakeem). In the all time blocked shot leaders, #1,#4,#5, and #6 were in their prime during the Jordan years.
some impressive knowledge bombs re jordan being dropped in this thread
i would appreciate anyone posting up some highlights from either of these guys (obvi they are on youtube, but difficult to find the better ones amongst hundreds of vids unless you know the sport very well).
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Lebron can’t create the space the way Jordan used to. He just doesn’t have that quickness and skill that Jordan had. Watch the old Jordan highlight reels and even when the defender is in his face all it takes is a jab step and couple dribbles and he ends up with an open look. Lebron relies and getting the first step, or just using his strength and size to get his shot off. It’s a mismatch no matter who guards him. Guards are to small and weak, forwards are to slow and still sometimes too weak. Despite what the commentators say, Lebron can’t score at will the way Jordan did. Even Durant is better than Lebron in that respect. [/quote]
Worth pointing out that James has never been about being a pure scorer and is clearly ahead of Jordan and Durant as both playmaker/passer and rebounder.
Now this one’s tougher. Sure, MJ has two DPOYs but he could never guard four different positions the way James can/does, and effectively at that. [/quote]
You’re right. Jordan can’t guard 4 positions but he can guard 3 positions better than Lebron. As cool as it is to be able to guard 4 positions very well, I’d rather have a guy who’s the BEST at guarding his position. Look at who Jordan had to compete with to get the DPOY. The best defensive center in history (Hakeem). In the all time blocked shot leaders, #1,#4,#5, and #6 were in their prime during the Jordan years.
Don’t forget Dennis Rodman and Karl Malone either
[quote]gregron wrote:
Also the game was much different back then. They don’t let defenses mug guys like they used to. If MJ played in today’s game he’d average a lot more than he did.
^^this kind of points back to Sam’s post about Bron bouncing off contact. He is getting hit no where near as hard as guys were backin the day.[/quote]
This works both ways. Lebron had a ton of charges in the first game against Dallas in the championship, after he got them he didn’t know what to do and was unable to score. While the defense may have been allowed more contact, I doubt they would’ve been able to stop him. Much like Mutumbo had to deal with Shaq.
Not that I think any of this automatically makes him the best athlete, and I wonder what some people are watching when they watched Jordan play. He was way more effortless and graceful the Lebron, and his scoring was automatic. Lebron has been automatic for 2 months Jordan was automatic for years, and in the playoffs. Jordan at the wing going to the whole was nearly 2x as fast as Lebron so how his Lebron the better athlete? Teams didn’t have time to draw charges and if they got there anywhere in time he jumped over them, and I don’t know a player Michael couldn’t back down. Lebron has had a tough time backing down many players in the league.
I give it to Michael for many reasons right now but I think this debate can last forever because they are two different type of players. Lebron is more Magic Johnson
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
some impressive knowledge bombs re jordan being dropped in this thread
i would appreciate anyone posting up some highlights from either of these guys (obvi they are on youtube, but difficult to find the better ones amongst hundreds of vids unless you know the sport very well).[/quote]
Yeah, it’s long because it’s 50 plays but they did a great job of showing him doing things besides dunking on people like most highlight videos. Many of them are typical Jordan: blowing past his defender as if he were wearing lead boots and still scoring on the next 2-3 guys who try and help out. Either with a dunk or an acrobatic shot. See #39 for an example. That’s Gerald Wilkins who he blew by and he was a good defender back in the day.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
some impressive knowledge bombs re jordan being dropped in this thread
i would appreciate anyone posting up some highlights from either of these guys (obvi they are on youtube, but difficult to find the better ones amongst hundreds of vids unless you know the sport very well).[/quote]
Yeah, it’s long because it’s 50 plays but they did a great job of showing him doing things besides dunking on people like most highlight videos. Many of them are typical Jordan: blowing past his defender as if he were wearing lead boots and still scoring on the next 2-3 guys who try and help out. Either with a dunk or an acrobatic shot. See #39 for an example. That’s Gerald Wilkins who he blew by and he was a good defender back in the day.[/quote]
play 14 at 9.20 is just ridiculous
(17:55 - 18:55) for a collection of insane finishes
(24:10 - 29:00) Knicks vs Bulls, best-of-seven, perfect snapshot of just how rough/brutal the game used to be
(26:26 - 26:32) easily my favorite of all MJ’s ridiculous finishes, intensity is palpable
thanks for all the videos please keep putting them up.
