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Micellar Casein = Milk Protein?

if i buy milk protein isolate…is it relatively as good as micellar casein as a slowly-released, nighttime protein?

I could be wrong… but I dont think it is the same. Micellar casein comes from “raw milk” that is straight out of the udder I think. I dont think that milk protein is the same stuff.

Milk protien isolate is 80% casein & 20% whey. So yes it is (80%) as goods as Micellar casein/

Micellar casein has other benefits. Hit search; there is a long thread about micellar casein around here that goes into great detail.

Call me crazy here BUT:

casein is milk protein, it is not whey.

micellar means that the casein is coated with micelles which measn that it takes longer to be degraded, meaning the stomach doesn’t decompose it to macromolecules but it takes until the large and sometimes even the small intestine for the actual casein to be completely broken down to macromolecules.

So, i believe the micelles help protect from enzymatic degredation, and the word casein itself means milk protein.

Someone call my bullshit? This is what I BELIEVE to be correct.

Milk protein isolate is both casein and whey. MPI is 80% casein and 20% whey (assuming it’s from cows). MPI is pretty much untouched for the most part (minimal processing, no need to separate whey and casein) and should have some micellar casein.

[quote]fedorov91 wrote:
Milk protien isolate is 80% casein & 20% whey. So yes it is (80%) as goods as Micellar casein/[/quote]

God Damn! Please read before posting “facts”. The milk you get in the store contains caesin. That is not the same thing as micellar caesin.

“For those of you who haven?t heard of it or just need a reminder, micellar casein is the natural, undenatured form of casein found in milk.”

Here’s the article:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=532033

[quote]samdiesel wrote:
fedorov91 wrote:
God Damn! Please read before posting “facts”. The milk you get in the store contains caesin. That is not the same thing as micellar caesin.

“For those of you who haven?t heard of it or just need a reminder, micellar casein is the natural, undenatured form of casein found in milk.”

Here’s the article:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=532033[/quote]

funny that you would say that comment about presenting “facts”

Milk, as in the milk you buy in the shop has micellar casein in it (~98% of the casein within the milk)
The casein within MPI is primarily micellar casein, as it is produced in a similar fasion to micellar casein.

[quote]cycomiko wrote:
samdiesel wrote:
fedorov91 wrote:
God Damn! Please read before posting “facts”. The milk you get in the store contains caesin. That is not the same thing as micellar caesin.

“For those of you who haven?t heard of it or just need a reminder, micellar casein is the natural, undenatured form of casein found in milk.”

Here’s the article:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=532033

funny that you would say that comment about presenting “facts”

Milk, as in the milk you buy in the shop has micellar casein in it (~98% of the casein within the milk)
The casein within MPI is primarily micellar casein, as it is produced in a similar fasion to micellar casein.[/quote]

Your link doesn’t work.

[quote]samdiesel wrote:
Your link doesn’t work.[/quote]

look again,

thats your link that was included in my post

if it’s ultra filtrated and then spray dried it will be in the region of 80% M.C. depending on how ‘daisy’ was was feeling when they sucked it out of her.

And that’s a fact!

[quote]cycomiko wrote:
samdiesel wrote:
Your link doesn’t work.

look again,

thats your link that was included in my post[/quote]

Touche. It is my understanding though that the pasteurization process that store-bought milk goes through denatures the caesin contained therein. If you were drinking milk striaght from the cow, like some do in Europe, and I suppose the midwest, you should be getting the same product. I just think doing that would be difficult for most, and the micellar caesin in Grow! is designed to rectify that problem.

Even if I’m completely wrong, I’d still stick with the Grow! beause it doesn’t have carbs, so I can drink it late night without saying goodbye to my abs, and you don’t have to worry about lactose intolerance issues.

Show me indisputable proof, and I’ll gladly concede any point.

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1107361610500.Copy_of_casein.gif

Micelles are cool.

Remember, molecular structure determines properties!

And the search button wept…

[quote]samdiesel wrote: It is my understanding though that the pasteurization process that store-bought milk goes through denatures the caesin contained therein. If you were drinking milk striaght from the cow, like some do in Europe, and I suppose the midwest, you should be getting the same product. I just think doing that would be difficult for most, and the micellar caesin in Grow! is designed to rectify that problem.
.[/quote]

your assuming that casein is a heat liable protein, which it isnt (whey can be), it is an acid liable protein, which is why it has such great properties, ie forms a clot in the stomach ie cottage cheese . The extremes of heat may have an effect, melting cottage cheese is interesting :slight_smile: but noraml cheeses melt because of structural changes from the bacteria chomping up the micelle.

But pasterization is a relatively low temp, short term process, and little if any change actually happens within that time period, to the micelle. the reason caseinate is not in the native micelle is because of in the process of making it, they specifically denature it.

Never argue with Cycomiko when it comes to dairy stuff. He’s basically a moo juice god :slight_smile:

I should be more specific, heat will have an effect (combined with duration), but not the amount normally utilized for pasteruzing. It is also dependant on pH, and can be achieved by both extremes of heat.

[quote]cycomiko wrote:
cycomiko wrote: The extremes of heat may have an effect

I should be more specific, heat will have an effect (combined with duration), but not the amount normally utilized for pasteruzing. It is also dependant on pH, and can be achieved by both extremes of heat.[/quote]

Fair enough. That’d being conceded, I still wouldn’t recommend milk over Low-Carb Grow! at 2 in the morning,

depends on what you are looking for

[quote]cycomiko wrote:
depends on what you are looking for[/quote]

You have no idea how much respect you have just earned from me. I hope we can speak again, only next time I will make certain to defer to you before stating “facts”. Thanks.