T Nation

Mexican Flag Above US Flag???

[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Hmmm…would you stand by and watch someone torture their dog? The dog is the property of the person doing the torturing. Who are you to interfere with how a man treats his property? No, I don’t think you would.

There are some things beyond property rights.

Man, you must be quite messed up to equate torturing a living being with hanging a couple of flags on a pole.[/quote]

Thousands upon thousands of men and women have died or been horribly maimed protecting the American flag and what it represents. So, YES, the flag is more important than the dog.

You can’t wipe your ass with the flag, you can’t use it for a napkin, and you can’t disrespect it, no matter how much anyone thinks it is their ‘property’. No one really owns any American flag anyway; it belongs to those who kept the Nazis out of Morocco, drove them out of Belgium, or helped liberate the oppressed people of Iraq (and soon of Iran).

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The veteran should get a medal, the store owner should be tarred and feathered, then sent packing back to the paradise he longs for.

Putting OUR flag underneath another…dammned traitor…

The veteran should get a medal for destroying private property? I thought you were all about property rights HH?

The veteran should be arrested and charged with destruction of private property. The store owner should also be charged and punished accordingly, since what he did was apparently a federal offense. They both committed crimes, they should both be punished. Anything more or less strikes me as beyond idiotic.

Hmmm…would you stand by and watch someone torture their dog? The dog is the property of the person doing the torturing. Who are you to interfere with how a man treats his property? No, I don’t think you would.

There are some things beyond property rights.

I don’t understand how an intelligent person could get so worked up about a piece of cloth.[/quote]

That’s because you function at the perceptual level of awareness, and not at the conceptual level. Our flag is an IDEA, it is most definitely not a mere ‘piece of cloth’.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:

Would you stand by and watch your government torture the Iraqi people? Hey, that’s not a rhetorical question.
They do, and you applaud them for it.

.[/quote]

You wouldn’t understand anything about national pride, you’re from Europe. You’re all civilized and advanced, superior to us backward, barbarian Americans, remember? You’d rather get worked up about being forced to shower twice a day because of sanitation reasons than get upset at the desecration of your own flag.

And if you want to discuss “torture” then let’s take a look at Belgium’s own King Leopold:

http://www.crf-usa.org/bria/bria16_2.html

I can not believe it, I go along with headhunter.

The man maybe overreacted, but he has a valid point.

A flag is a symbol for the nation (that`s why you burn them), putting a mexican above the us-flag is a very political statement. The citizens of the US have every right to defend their national souverinty on their soil. I would not like to see a turkish flag above the austrian in my country.

And if I am not completly wrong there is a law in the US that says that the American flag has to be on top.

[quote]Mishima wrote:
I would not like to see a turkish flag above the austrian in my country. [/quote]

A flag should indeed be respected. But the question is, would you resort to violence? I don’t think anyone here is defending the Mexican jerk in this case. Whether it should be considered freedom of speech or not is another issue…

LMAO…nice.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Moriarty wrote:

HH, come on now I know you’re more reasonable than this.

Hysterical![/quote]

[quote]Mishima wrote:
I can not believe it, I go along with headhunter.

The man maybe overreacted, but he has a valid point.

A flag is a symbol for the nation (that`s why you burn them), putting a mexican above the us-flag is a very political statement. The citizens of the US have every right to defend their national souverinty on their soil. I would not like to see a turkish flag above the austrian in my country.

And if I am not completly wrong there is a law in the US that says that the American flag has to be on top.

[/quote]

US flag with foreign flags11. When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.

The order of precedence for flags generally is National flags (US first, then others in alphabetical order in English), State (host state first, then others in the order of admission) and territories (Washington DC, Puerto Rico, etc.), Military (in order of establishment: Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard), then other.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

“Well I can stand behind ideals I think are right and I can stand behind the ideal to stand and fight…this is our country.”

Our flag flys first in our country and if you want to be a citizen and enjoy the rights, and priveleges, which includes criticizing her, then you damn well fly this flag first as respect to it and those who died and were maimed to give you that right. With all your rights comes responsibilities. Your freedoms came and come at a price. Its not too much to ask.

Yes I am a veteran also.

[quote]btm62 wrote:
Your freedoms came and come at a price.[/quote]

What does that mean?

BIAS ALERT!!!

As if it was needed…

Lixy Wrote:
“A flag should indeed be respected. But the question is, would you resort to violence? I don’t think anyone here is defending the Mexican jerk in this case.”

However in the Dearborn thread you never come out and say that about the muslims who fly the flag upside down in MI. Do you hate Hispanics?

I do think that someone here is defending the Muslim jerks. Imagine that.

The veteran stopped an illegal act. There should be no retaliation taken towards him. You can’t compare raising the flag with beating a dog. You can, however, compare it with someone using private property to commit a crime.

The mexican store owner didn’t know it was a crime… ok well I will believe that I guess. He should have to go to court, he should not be fined or imprisoned. He should have to write an essay on the importance of U.S. Sovereignty on U.S. soil, and/or an appology letter to be published by the local newspapers.

We as Americans, need to stop being “Irish American” or “African American” or what ever. And start being Americans. Don’t forget your culture or traditions, but realize that as a Citizen, you are a part of new traditions and cultures. Until we stop bickering about how we are all “different” we will be hindering our ability to make the world a better place (yea I know I sound like a hippie right there, oh well)

[quote]Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
The veteran stopped an illegal act. There should be no retaliation taken towards him. You can’t compare raising the flag with beating a dog. You can, however, compare it with someone using private property to commit a crime.

The mexican store owner didn’t know it was a crime… ok well I will believe that I guess. He should have to go to court, he should not be fined or imprisoned. He should have to write an essay on the importance of U.S. Sovereignty on U.S. soil, and/or an appology letter to be published by the local newspapers.

We as Americans, need to stop being “Irish American” or “African American” or what ever. And start being Americans. Don’t forget your culture or traditions, but realize that as a Citizen, you are a part of new traditions and cultures. Until we stop bickering about how we are all “different” we will be hindering our ability to make the world a better place (yea I know I sound like a hippie right there, oh well)[/quote]

The store owner is a white American. He wanted to attract more mexicans to his store.

[quote]Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
The veteran stopped an illegal act. There should be no retaliation taken towards him. You can’t compare raising the flag with beating a dog. You can, however, compare it with someone using private property to commit a crime.
[/quote]

Honestly, I don’t know what happened. First I read that the guy brandished a knife, confronted the owner aggressively and tore the flag to shreds. Then I heard he calmly took the flag down and didn’t cause any damage. I don’t know enough about the situation to judge.

My point though is that if the guy broke the law, he should be punished according to the law. Period. At this point I have no idea what happened so I don’t know if he did in fact break any laws. People seem to want laws enforced based on how they feel emotionally about the situation.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What a stupid law of symbolism. Does this really matter?[/quote]

YES. Yes it does.

Even here in Canada. Unless you’re a visitor, you should not have another flag flying over the Canadian Flag.

Here is the exact footage from film crews.

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/128253/Veteran_Cuts_Down_Mexican_Flag.html

He pulled it down, cut the rope the flag was attached to and took the American flag away.

That’s it.

[quote]DR. J wrote:
The store owner is a white American. He wanted to attract more mexicans to his store.
[/quote]

This is a quote from the article.

If the vet did brandish the knife, I think that’s a little extreme. If he asked the owner to pull it down, and the owner declined, I would support the vet tearing it down. It’s a federal offense. No one is going to fault you for stopping a criminal act. No one was injured.

The best the owner has is the ability to start a civil case. But thats like saying "I was just trying to spraypaint this picture of a penis on the side of Lincoln’s chair at the Lincoln memorial and this dude came up and took all my spraypaint away.

[quote]unbending wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What a stupid law of symbolism. Does this really matter?

YES. Yes it does.

Even here in Canada. Unless you’re a visitor, you should not have another flag flying over the Canadian Flag.
[/quote]

Sorry. I just can’t get behind that. The guy that did it didn’t even know he was breaking a law. He stated that he was doing it to show solidarity to the Hispanic pro-immigrant people. This was not done as a mark of disrespect to the American military specifically. It was done in the same spirit as the freedom of speech. I am sure if someone would have rationally explained it to him he would have taken it down or given it its own pole.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The veteran should get a medal, the store owner should be tarred and feathered, then sent packing back to the paradise he longs for.

Putting OUR flag underneath another…dammned traitor…
[/quote]

He ought to be shot in the face with a 12ga point blank as a “town square hanging” example to other “norte invasion” illegals.

HH, as a former Marine, this is a post you and I FULLY agree on! Your views on other shit is whack, but I was raised by a full family of Vets, my grandma was a Marine as was I, father and granddad were Navy, Army, etc. Fuck anyone who tries to defame our fuckin’ flag.

I’m severely liberal, but you don’t deface a super-symbol that I defended, and will always defend. Oct.8th,1992, I took the oath, Oct.16th I was in Parris Island. Don’t tread on me! Especially with a fuckin’ Mexican flag! WTF have they done for us? Except clean GW’s yard and house…
And Lixy, any means necessary should be used to defend MY flag, period.

[quote]nsane-membrain wrote:
HH, as a former Marine, this is a post you and I FULLY agree on! Your views on other shit is whack, but I was raised by a full family of Vets, my grandma was a Marine as was I, father and granddad were Navy, Army, etc. Fuck anyone who tries to defame our fuckin’ flag. I’m severely liberal, but you don’t deface a super-symbol that I defended, and will always defend. Oct.8th,1992, I took the oath, Oct.16th I was in Parris Island. Don’t tread on me! Especially with a fuckin’ Mexican flag! WTF have they done for us? Except clean GW’s yard and house…
And Lixy, any means necessary should be used to defend MY flag, period.[/quote]

good post