T Nation

Mexican Flag Above US Flag???

Veteran Removes Illegal Mexican Flag, May Be Charged.

Reno resident cuts down Mexican flag flying above U.S. flag after outcry
Steve Watson
Wednesday, Oct 3, 2007

A Veteran from Reno, Nev. has hit headlines after he took matters into his own hands yesterday and tore down a Mexican flag that was being illegally flown above a U.S. flag at a local business.

Local news station krnv News 4 had received calls yesterday afternoon from angry residents complaining about the Mexican flag. When the station sent a reporter to investigate the Veteran took the opportunity to make a statement in front of the cameras.

The man commented “I’m Jim Brossert and I took this flag down in honor of my country with a knife from the United States army. I’m a veteran, I am not going to see this done to my country. if they want to fight us, then they need to be men, and they need to come and fight us, but I want somebody to fight me for this flag. They’re not going to get it back.”

The hispanic store owner who witnessed the incident would not make comment on camera but told krnv over the phone that he was flying the flag as a mark of solidarity to the hispanic community. Pro-immigration protests have been ongoing in the area all weekend after raids were conducted by authorities in the area last week.

The store owner said he is an American citizen and did not know what he was doing was against the law. However, according to federal law it is illegal to fly any flag above the U.S. flag, and if flying more than one they must be on separate poles and be of an equal size.

The Reno police department has told krnv that Brossert will faces charges for theft if the store owner files a police report of what happened.

Similar incidents have previously been reported in Maywood, CA., Tucson, Arizona, and Jupiter, Florida.

The veteran should get a medal, the store owner should be tarred and feathered, then sent packing back to the paradise he longs for.

Putting OUR flag underneath another…dammned traitor…

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:

Similar incidents have previously been reported in Maywood, CA., Tucson, Arizona, and Jupiter, Florida.[/quote]

The nests…

What a stupid law of symbolism. Does this really matter?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What a stupid law of symbolism. Does this really matter?[/quote]

Respect.

I hope this “veteran” is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Good for him, in the store owners defense he did fly the flag right side up, unlike some of Americas other inhabitants.

[quote]Moriarty wrote:
I hope this “veteran” is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.[/quote]

And I hope ICE/“La Migra” comes and gets you too.

At least he didn’t burn the Mexican flag, lord knows the ACLU would surely have cried outrage over that, whereas they couldn’t care less if somebody burns an American one.

[quote]gatesoftanhauser wrote:
And I hope ICE/“La Migra” comes and gets you too.
[/quote]

Just to clarify, are you saying that you hope that this “veteran” gets prosecuted for destroying private property AND that “La Migra” comes for me? If so, and if you’re assuming I’m an illegal immigrant, then I agree with you 100%. Illegal immigrants and people that destroy private property should both be punished in accordance with the law.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The veteran should get a medal, the store owner should be tarred and feathered, then sent packing back to the paradise he longs for.

Putting OUR flag underneath another…dammned traitor…
[/quote]

The veteran should get a medal for destroying private property? I thought you were all about property rights HH?

The veteran should be arrested and charged with destruction of private property. The store owner should also be charged and punished accordingly, since what he did was apparently a federal offense. They both committed crimes, they should both be punished. Anything more or less strikes me as beyond idiotic.

[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The veteran should get a medal, the store owner should be tarred and feathered, then sent packing back to the paradise he longs for.

Putting OUR flag underneath another…dammned traitor…

The veteran should get a medal for destroying private property? I thought you were all about property rights HH?

The veteran should be arrested and charged with destruction of private property. The store owner should also be charged and punished accordingly, since what he did was apparently a federal offense. They both committed crimes, they should both be punished. Anything more or less strikes me as beyond idiotic.[/quote]

Hmmm…would you stand by and watch someone torture their dog? The dog is the property of the person doing the torturing. Who are you to interfere with how a man treats his property? No, I don’t think you would.

There are some things beyond property rights.

[quote]Moriarty wrote:
gatesoftanhauser wrote:
And I hope ICE/“La Migra” comes and gets you too.

Just to clarify, are you saying that you hope that this “veteran” gets prosecuted for destroying private property AND that “La Migra” comes for me? If so, and if you’re assuming I’m an illegal immigrant, then I agree with you 100%. Illegal immigrants and people that destroy private property should both be punished in accordance with the law.

[/quote]

Way to contradict yourself.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The veteran should get a medal, the store owner should be tarred and feathered, then sent packing back to the paradise he longs for.

Putting OUR flag underneath another…dammned traitor…

The veteran should get a medal for destroying private property? I thought you were all about property rights HH?

The veteran should be arrested and charged with destruction of private property. The store owner should also be charged and punished accordingly, since what he did was apparently a federal offense. They both committed crimes, they should both be punished. Anything more or less strikes me as beyond idiotic.

Hmmm…would you stand by and watch someone torture their dog? The dog is the property of the person doing the torturing. Who are you to interfere with how a man treats his property? No, I don’t think you would.

There are some things beyond property rights.
[/quote]

HH, come on now I know you’re more reasonable than this.

If I see a human or even an animal being attacked I am permitted under the law to act in order to prevent that person/animal from being harmed. I can intervene if a life is in immediate peril.

I am NOT allowed to destroy someone’s property just because they are using it in an illegal manner.

What else am I allowed to do HH? If I find out that you’re growing pot in your bedroom am I allowed to enter your home, trash your place and destroy your plants because it’s illegal?

Why on Earth would you want people to have the discretion to destroy your property if they don’t like how you’re using it? If you enter my home/business with a knife in your hand and with intent to destroy property I will shoot you dead. Vigilantism has no place in our society.

[quote]gatesoftanhauser wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
gatesoftanhauser wrote:
And I hope ICE/“La Migra” comes and gets you too.

Just to clarify, are you saying that you hope that this “veteran” gets prosecuted for destroying private property AND that “La Migra” comes for me? If so, and if you’re assuming I’m an illegal immigrant, then I agree with you 100%. Illegal immigrants and people that destroy private property should both be punished in accordance with the law.

Way to contradict yourself.

[/quote]

How is that contradictory?

[quote]Moriarty wrote:

HH, come on now I know you’re more reasonable than this.

…[/quote]

Hysterical!


This thread needs this picture.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The veteran should get a medal, the store owner should be tarred and feathered, then sent packing back to the paradise he longs for.

Putting OUR flag underneath another…dammned traitor…

The veteran should get a medal for destroying private property? I thought you were all about property rights HH?

The veteran should be arrested and charged with destruction of private property. The store owner should also be charged and punished accordingly, since what he did was apparently a federal offense. They both committed crimes, they should both be punished. Anything more or less strikes me as beyond idiotic.

Hmmm…would you stand by and watch someone torture their dog? The dog is the property of the person doing the torturing. Who are you to interfere with how a man treats his property? No, I don’t think you would.

There are some things beyond property rights.

[/quote]

Would you stand by and watch your government torture the Iraqi people? Hey, that’s not a rhetorical question.
They do, and you applaud them for it.

I don’t understand how an intelligent person could get so worked up about a piece of cloth.

Wow, that’s pretty fucking contradictory there. Doesn’t shooting someone dead in reaction to their committing a crime constitute vigilantism?

Secondly, to “shoot someone dead” for entering your property with the sole intent of committing property damage, is illegal. In California (and most other states except Texas, Florida and a couple others), homicide is only justifiable if you can show that you were acting to prevent the commission of an act of violence or a FELONY. Cutting down a Mexican flag is misdemeanor vandalism at best and certainly doesn’t justify the application of deadly force. I’m not saying I wouldn’t shoot someone dead for entering my home or business with a knife, but not if I knew they were simply intending to commit a mild act of vandalism.

Finally, the US flag code, while technically law, carries no penalties for infractions. So the store owner, while technically breaking the law, and being rather disrespectful in my opinion, can face absolutely no legal repercussions for his transgressions.

I’d really like to know whether the veteran asked the shopkeeper to take the flag down before taking matters into his own hands. I mean, if he just saw the flags like that, got pissed off, and cut the mexican one down, that’s shitty. Other other hand, if he nicely asked the shopkeeper to fix it and was told to fuck off and that it was meant to be an insult to the US, well then I’d have done the same thing he did, and gladly face and criminal charges for it.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Hmmm…would you stand by and watch someone torture their dog? The dog is the property of the person doing the torturing. Who are you to interfere with how a man treats his property? No, I don’t think you would.

There are some things beyond property rights. [/quote]

Man, you must be quite messed up to equate torturing a living being with hanging a couple of flags on a pole.

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
If you enter my home/business with a knife in your hand and with intent to destroy property I will shoot you dead. Vigilantism has no place in our society.

Wow, that’s pretty fucking contradictory there. Doesn’t shooting someone dead in reaction to their committing a crime constitute vigilantism?
[/quote]

Nope. Shooting someone that has entered your property illegally, with a knife in their hand with intent to commit harm is self-defense.

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
Secondly, to “shoot someone dead” for entering your property with the sole intent of committing property damage, is illegal. In California (and most other states except Texas, Florida and a couple others), homicide is only justifiable if you can show that you were acting to prevent the commission of an act of violence or a FELONY.
[/quote]

If someone enters my home illegally with a knife in their hand and starts tearing up the place it is entirely reasonable to assume that that person is a threat to commit harm to the occupants. There is no way I could possibly know ahead of time that “they were only there to commit property damage.”

Also, I do not live in California. I have that as my location so as not to give out identifying information about myself over the internet. I am a gun owner with a concealed weapons permit on a friendly basis with local law enforcement. I know for a fact that I would be in the clear criminally in the scenario I described above.

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
Cutting down a Mexican flag is misdemeanor vandalism at best and certainly doesn’t justify the application of deadly force. I’m not saying I wouldn’t shoot someone dead for entering my home or business with a knife, but not if I knew they were simply intending to commit a mild act of vandalism.
[/quote]

Exactly. I’m not saying that I would shoot someone for cutting down a flag. Not at all. I was trying to point out to HH that I would not give someone entering property with a deadly weapon in an aggressive manner the benefit of the doubt. I would defend myself with deadly force. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used that extreme example because it caused confusion and seems to have sent us off on a tangent.

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
Finally, the US flag code, while technically law, carries no penalties for infractions. So the store owner, while technically breaking the law, and being rather disrespectful in my opinion, can face absolutely no legal repercussions for his transgressions.
[/quote]

Then so be it. We have a legislative process for changing that if we decide that’s appropriate. Vigilantism is not acceptable.

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
I’d really like to know whether the veteran asked the shopkeeper to take the flag down before taking matters into his own hands. I mean, if he just saw the flags like that, got pissed off, and cut the mexican one down, that’s shitty. Other other hand, if he nicely asked the shopkeeper to fix it and was told to fuck off and that it was meant to be an insult to the US, well then I’d have done the same thing he did, and gladly face and criminal charges for it.
[/quote]

That makes sense. If you are willing to face the criminal charges then go for it by all means.