T Nation

Methyl-D

I’m pretty new to using any "help to gain muscle but was recently told about Methyl-D. I did some research but there wasn’t much about it. It was compared to M-1-T. I did find good info on that. It is recommended that you use an estrogen blocker after M-1-T. My question is would you need an E blocker after Methyl-D?

Just so you know my goal is to gain 10-12 pounds of LBM. I’ve got my diet and training dialed in. I’m 6’1" 202 and 13% bf.

Any help on this would be appreciated.

RichM

Yes you would definitely need some sort of post cycle therapy on Methyl-d. Also depending on how long you run it, 10-12 pounds of lbm might be hard to achieve. Methyl-D isn’t quite the mass builder that M1T is, but if you run it around 4 weeks at maybe 4-5mgs I think it’s possible. Just make sure you have everything you need for the cycle before you start.

Thanks JJ.

Would M-1-T be a better way to go? I’m definitely looking for more mass.

Actualy methyl-D is very toxic on the liver, no matter what the manufacture claims all of my friends who used it noticed liver pain.

So don’t use it anymore than 20-25 days without a month or more off it. And you will need nolvadex or something, as not only will they block E but increase your Test as well.

If male pattern bladness is a prob use finastride or a topical solution to counter DHT as well.

Rich I am having very good gains using M1-T if you want any info just PM me…

I’ve seen blood work done that showed Methyl-D to actually not be as liver toxic as once thought. If mass in a short period of time is your goal defenitely M1T is the choice for you but be aware that many are reporting the lethargy on M1T to be awful and I can attest to that as I’ve run 4 cycles of it already. Just be prepared to combat the cramping with potassium and lethargy with 4-ad if possible. But then again my first cycle of it at 5 and 10 mgs I felt like a million bucks. Take it for what it’s worth.

I am in the 10th week of my 13 week first cycle. I won’t go into all the particulars of the cycle, I just wanted to give you my opinion of M-1-T compared to the real thing. Honestly M-1-T is close. I did several cycles of Gaspari Nutrition M-1-T alone or stacked with 4AD. The shit worked best for me at 30mg a day by itself. Good overall gains with very little water or fat. I never got much out of those short cycles. Six weeks was the best cycle length for me. Ten pounds should be a sure thing. I alway recovered quickly with nolva in 2 or 3 weeks.

Just make sure you use NAC and milk thistle. My liver values took two months to go back to normal.

I have done 2 brief cycles of M1T at 30mg. Each lasted 13 days before the sides became unbearable. By the end of my cycles I experienced: draining lethargy, poor sleep quality/insomnia, weird naps, constipation (perhaps aggravated by poor sleep), elevated BP, shortness of breath, difficulty with cardio, rapid hair growth on face, itching skin on my elbows, hips and sides, joint pain and muscle cramps. How’s that?
Why did I continue with it? Results. After PCT using Nolvadex, I kept a total of 12 pounds of muscle after the second cycle.
I decided to give Methyl-D a try, as it is supposed to be milder on the sides. Today, after 10 days at 3mg, I don’t notice any sides. Also, I don’t notice ANY size gains. None. I am lifting and eating consistent with my M1T cycles.
I read what little I could find on Methyl-D. Am I missing something? I intend to continue for a full 30 day cycle. Should I up the dosage to 4 or 5mg, or just be patient?
I miss the fullness, the pumps, the hardness, the obvious visible quick gains of M1T, but it is a beating to go through. Quality of life suffers. It is difficult to drag yourself through the day and pretend everything is normal.
Any advice or direction on something more thorough to read and consider about a Methyl-D cycle would be greatly appreciated.
I am 40 years old, 6’1", 205 pounds, 10% BF with 25 years of very consistent lifting experience.

Depending on where you got your Methyl-D from it could be a bad batch. There were reports about the first batch from China not even testing that it contained any Methyl-D at all. Also I’ve been reading that when people bump the dosages to the 4-6 mg range the results are far superior cuz, like you, many were reporting gaining absolutely nothing. Personally I would try bumping the dosage until you see results but dont exceed 6mgs. It’s uncharted territory.

ironic this info. on m-d might help.

Article 1- Methyldienolone

The problem that I see with everyone who has tried Methyldienolone and gotten little or no results is that their dose is too low. Now I know some people are going to come on here and murder me for saying this but just remember this is my sole opinion and I am not always right, this is just how I see it on this particular issue.

If we take a look at what substances people are trying to comare M-D to, we can see that these substances are substantially anabolic and very midly androgenic. So what we can infer from those comparisons is that the gains will be “Moderate” and I repeat Moderate as opposed to the quick and often Noticable gains associated with methyl-1test and substances of similar nature.

When one looks at the fact that methyldienonlone is very midly androgenic and significantly more anabolic than methyl-1test in the assays, we must fighure a way to balance that ratio.
With a compund such as methyl-1test, we have a highly anabolic but also highly androgenic compound. Now when most people think of an androgenic compound, they think of it as being automatically bad (hairloss, oily skin, etc.). Now this is true in some circumstances as far as side effects go, but remember along with those sides we also have positve effects from the androgenic compounds. DHT which is the main focus of androgenic compunds, has been found, (correct me if I am wrong) to be 3 times as anabolic as testosterone. Along with the anabolic values, androgenic compounds also increase aggressivness, and are very dry compounds, some working as mild anti-estrogens. When most people take a compound that is moderatly to highly androgenic, they usually state that they can “Feel” it working very quickly, usually within a few days. This is due to the DHT related effects.

Now, with compounds that are more anabolic and less androgenic, users often state that the gains are less pronounced and usually they feel the compund isnt working until a week or two into the cycle. When talking about a supplement such as methyldienolone we have to realize that people are expecting the same or similar gains to methyl-1test which is hard to achieve with a low androgenic compound.

Well, how does this all relate to dosing? If we look at the fact that most users of methyl-1test use around 20mgs a day, with some users going up to 30mgs a day, we need to try and find a dose that will achieve those same results and still be within a “safe” range. Most people who are selling methyldienolone are reccomending 1mg-3mg daily. Now, I personally think that 1mg daily of this substance, from looking at the data and from user feedback, is going to do absolutely nothing. Even, in my opinion 3mgs is still too low for most users, maybe even too low for everyone. I would reccomend a dosing of starting out at 5mg and increasing to somewhere around 10mg. I feel 10mg of methyldienolone would be alot closer to the results people should expect from this compund and should be around what people would expect from 20mg of methyl-1test. In extreme cases some users who have more experience with androgens and may have a higher body weight, could go over 10mgs. My reccomendation is to start out at 5mgs and steadily increase until the user feels the dose is right. I think most will find that 7-10mg is going to be a suffiecient dose.

I honestly believe that the dosing that I am reccomending is going to achieve the greatest results, while still minimizing the side effects. I do think the issue of progestin realted side effects may increase with the increase in dosage, although I wouldn’t be too concerned about it. In my opinion this compound does have some side effect issues, contrary to what some marketers would want you to believe, but I think the benefits outweigh the side effects with this substance. At the doses some manufacturers are suggesting (1-3mg) you probably wont see many side effects, but you probably wont see results either,so what good does that do? In my opinion some manufacturers (and im not reffering to anyone in particular) are marketing this product in the wrong way. Some are exploting the fact that methyldienolone shares a similar structure to the potent steroid trenbolone or methyltrenbolone which is correct in that the molecules look similar in a diagram but the fact that methyldienolone is missing the double bond which methyltren has, creates a very different substance. Remember jsut because a substance “looks similar” does not mean that it will act the same within the body. The only difference between Dianabol and Boldenone is a 17aa-methyl added to the d-bol structure, but these two chemicals act entirely different. I think when more data starts to come in, people will see that this is an inaccurate comparison of the two chemicals and the results will be entirely different.

I think we need to better understand the methylated prohormones and “prosteroids” that are already out and going to be released. Just taking a manufacturers word for it is not safe in my opinion. I think if we look at the data more closely we can see that many of the methyls (methyl-5aa, methyl-1,4aadiol, methyl-4ad) are being extremly low dosed. I dont know if this is for mere profit or if the research jsut wasnt done before the products were released.

I will follow up this article with one on each of the methyls currently available, and soon to be released.

JJ and Phill, thank you for your prompt assistance. I appreciate the help and advice. I am always open for additional experiences and thoughts from you both and others.
I likely will go the route of doubling my dosage to 6mg.
When I started my first cycle of M1T, I went a week at 20mg without much noticeable affect, so I bumped it to 30mg and fairly quickly noticed an impact.
I have been using Gaspari brand MD. I have had slight acne, but that’s about it as far as any noticeable affects. I think it is the real thing, just maybe not enough.
Tough call on all of this as it’s so new, little info to go on, and regardless, different affects on different people at different dosages. As most things in life, it’s very individualized and takes some personal experimentation.
Here’s a couple of follow-up questions:

  1. Should orals be taken in divided dosages, or is it best to take them all, say, early AM to more closely mimic natural testosterone release? I ended up taking my M1T in divided doses (20mg AM, 10mg PM) because taking 30mg AM hammered me as the sides seemed more pronounced.
  2. Would it make sense to mix in 5-10mg of M1T with the MD for better, maybe more synergistic results? Perhaps an idea for a future cycle?
  3. I also noticed with M1T, I could consume more calories without smoothing out. I was especially able to consume more carbs within 2 hours of my AM workout. My muscles were fuller, especially my upper body, including arms, which are a HUGE problem area for me. With MD, I have to eat cleaner and lighter as the added calories smooth me out. Any reason?
    Thanks again for the help gentlemen.

The first problem that jumps out at me is the brand you are using, When did you purchase it and where. I have heard a lot about Gaspari’s (sp) first batch being serverly under dosed/or none at all. They even can out and confirmed it and said they got the prob. fixed. It is possible you got one of that batch.

[quote]Here’s a couple of follow-up questions:

  1. Should orals be taken in divided dosages, or is it best to take them all, say, early AM to more closely mimic natural testosterone release? I ended up taking my M1T in divided doses (20mg AM, 10mg PM) because taking 30mg AM hammered me as the sides seemed more pronounced.[/quote]

Well I tend to lean toward the split dose. I have heard of ppl going both ways for a # of reason but neither seemed to have better results. So I lean toward going for a more consistant longer duration of the PH by splitting the dose. Personal opinion I guess.

{[quote]2) Would it make sense to mix in 5-10mg of M1T with the MD for better, maybe more synergistic results? Perhaps an idea for a future cycle?[/quote]

I dont think I will try it. 1 liver toxic substance @ a time for me thank you. Some have done it but not suggested.

[quote]
3) I also noticed with M1T, I could consume more calories without smoothing out. I was especially able to consume more carbs within 2 hours of my AM workout. My muscles were fuller, especially my upper body, including arms, which are a HUGE problem area for me. With MD, I have to eat cleaner and lighter as the added calories smooth me out. Any reason? [/quote]

This could be because it isn’t working or simply due to the fact M1T just seems to be known more as a mass builder and forces those muscles to comsume more. The M1T is also known for it’s dry gain ability, not making you store water. Cant answer for sure. Not enough research on these compound as of yet.

No prob. back to finals now.
Phill

well I extended my break since you gave me an excuse to stay away from my essay for a bit and checked on the info. I spoke of with your brand of M-d. Yes they had several bad batches that tested no higher than 60% and several tested as having a whopping 0%.

bad news possibly but I hope it helps,
Phill

Exactly what I was getting at Phill, Gaspari tested out pretty poor in the early going. But I think bumping the dosage is a good idea, if for nothing else to see if your product is legit. I also would split doasages cuz I’m not sure of the half-life of MD but it can’t hurt to have an even amount of hormone on a daily basis.

As for stacking 5-10 mgs of M1T with it… I’m not too sure, maybe in a future cycle when there is more real world feedback and blood test results I would feel more confident in telling you what to do. But purely my opinion I don’t think 5 mgs of M1T will hurt if you are taking the proper liver support.

And for your last q, it’s probably a matter of you not taking enough MD to get the type of effect that 30 mgs of M1T gave you. Give it a good week and a half at your 6 mgs and see if there’s a difference.

Thanks again to you both, and thanks for the PM Phill.
May I ask your source for some of this information? I tried a search to find info on testing batches of Gaspari MD and couldn’t find anything.
I bought mine about 3 weeks ago, but that doesn’t help as to when it was produced. Perhaps I could match a batch number if that is available.
Also, any direction on what sites I could further my reading on MD and other similar products? Is this info from other boards/forums you frequent?