T Nation

Methyl-1-Testosterone

T-Nation,

How do you guys feel about Methyl-1-Test and/or 1-Test (if you have done some research and preferrably used either or both)???

From my research I have read that it is NOT a pro-steroid nor a pro-hormone - that it’s actually a true steroid. But, it’s not illegal (yet) and it’s not nearly as powerful as illegal anabolics.

Further, I have read that there is NO possible estrogen conversion from 1-Test itself, nor from any converted Test after the liver. It’s taughted to be several times more anabolic than regular Test and is only mildly androgenic (acne, voice deepending, aggression, etc.).

Finally, several sources say that the best way for 1-Test to get past the liver is in a fat-soluable suspension (enters the blood thru the lymphatic system, like a dietary fat does).

However, methylated 1-Test (Methyl-1-Test) doesn’t need a fat to get it to the blood and is supposedly nearly 100% bioavailable, therefore requiring a fraction of the dose of 1-Test (300-600mg of 1-Test vs. 20-40mg of Methyl-1-Test). Although, there is some concern with liver toxification with the Methylated version. Methyl-1-Test products do mention this and some come with liver detoxifying compounds. 1-Test products do not mention this risk and are typically just 1-Test.

Any and all feedback GREATLY appreciated!!!

On a side note: I have used MAG-10 (A-1-E, and 4-AD product) with some limited success, so please don’t give me shit for not completely sticking with Biotest. I also have used I-TU (a 1-Test product that uses an undecanoate ester - sesame oil and oleic acid) and have found solid gains with that. I like Biotest’s products, but this market is too competitive to not have other quality companies out there. I’m just looking for general scientific and anecdotal infomation across the board - let’s not be biased please, unless you have tried several types and brands of products!

Thanks a bunch!

TopSirloin

I’ve gone over this topic in two previous columns:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459867

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459459

As far as anecdotal reports go, the most commonly reported side effects are lethargy and an increase in blood pressure, with a few reports of nausea. It’s for that exact reason that I don’t like this androgen along with the fact that its true anabolic activity doesn’t warrant tolerating such side effects. If, on the other hand, you don’t have a problem with it, more power to you. While I won’t deny that it’s effective, it’s not the outrageously powerful compound that the “shops” on the internet are making it out to be.

[quote]Cy Willson wrote:
While I won’t deny that it’s effective, it’s not the outrageously powerful compound that the “shops” on the internet are making it out to be.[/quote]

Cy-

I really appreciate you taking the time to point me in a direction of education. I am all for being in the know and I love your honest advice!

However, I do have a couple concerns that you sparked for me:

  1. I read your articles (as best I could since I’m not a doctor), and I appreciated the fact that you are not just interpreting data, but questioning how certain conclusions shouldn’t have been formed. The thing that I find confusing though is that you just posted, “…I won’t deny it’s [M1T] effective…” Yet, you don’t give M1T ANY credit for being at least a poor androgen in your other articles on it! I am not picking a fight with you, but rather I am trying to understand why you contradicted yourself???

  2. I have already bought some M1T, so I will post what I get out of it. But, while I have your attention, what is the best pro-steroid/pro-hormone androgen that anyone can buy (no matter the brand)??? Part deux of that is then what’s the best delivery method? (is MAG-10 TRULY the best - in your honest to God, non-biased, double-blind scientific opinion???)

Thanks Cy!

Opinions and comments from all members are encouraged!!!

TopSirloin

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
Cy Willson wrote:
While I won’t deny that it’s effective, it’s not the outrageously powerful compound that the “shops” on the internet are making it out to be.

Cy-

I really appreciate you taking the time to point me in a direction of education. I am all for being in the know and I love your honest advice!

However, I do have a couple concerns that you sparked for me:

  1. I read your articles (as best I could since I’m not a doctor), and I appreciated the fact that you are not just interpreting data, but questioning how certain conclusions shouldn’t have been formed. The thing that I find confusing though is that you just posted, “…I won’t deny it’s [M1T] effective…” Yet, you don’t give M1T ANY credit for being at least a poor androgen in your other articles on it! I am not picking a fight with you, but rather I am trying to understand why you contradicted yourself???

Glad I can help and you’re very welcome, however, I don’t understand where you’re getting the idea that I contradicted myself. I’ve never said that M-1-T is completely ineffective, I’ve simply gone over the various claims that it’s “X” amount times more potent than testosterone such. Please re-read part of the article that I had given you the link for:
"Moving on, when people look at Vida?s book they tend to (for some reason which I?ve yet to understand) pick out the best figure they can find and only report that one. For instance, with the compound erroneously referred to as methyl-1-testosterone, you notice huge discrepancies between the various values given. You have M-1-T being anywhere from equipotent to twice as potent compared to Testosterone propionate in terms of an anabolic effect. When compared with methyltestosterone (taken orally) the values are 11 to 19 times greater for M-1-T as compared to methyltestosterone.

If you look over the data, even the control (Testosterone propionate) fluctuated greatly. You?ll even see that the anabolic potency varies from one group of M-1-T (910) to another (1600) by nearly twofold and the androgenic values go from 220 to 100 respectively.

Also, another fact to consider is the huge discrepancy in values with M-1-T being injected and given orally. This shouldn?t be the case. When injecting the compound you?re getting pretty close to 100% bioavailability, and when given orally, considering that the molecule is 17 alpha-alkylated, you?d expect a value that?s at the absolute very best, equivalent to the values with parenteral administration of the same 17 alpha-alkylated molecule. Instead, we see that oral adminstration of M-1-T produces significantly greater anabolic effects as compared to parenteral administration, which makes little sense.

A consideration of pharmacokinetics doesn?t account for the discrepancy either. This again points back to the fact that extrapolating animal data to humans is completely inaccurate and should never be done. What happens in one species, more often than not, will vary greatly from what happens in another.

What the general public doesn?t understand is that people selling you these products are simply gathering the figures that look best to them. In this case, it would be to tell you that M-1-T is 16 times more potent than Testosterone propionate and equipotent (if not less) in terms of being androgenic. If you get a chance to look at the reference values in Vida?s book you?ll get a better understanding of why it?s so inaccurate to apply this data to other rats, let alone humans!

Also, I want to again point out that Counsell, et al. found C-17 alkylation of 17b -hydroxy-5a -androst-1-en-3-one (incorrectly referred to as 1-Testosterone) forming what is now being called Methyl-1-testosterone (17a -Methyl-17b -hydroxy-5a -androst-1-en-3-one), decreased anabolic and androgenic activity in bioassays. It had about one-fourth the anabolic potency of Testosterone propionate and about half the androgenic activity.

Meanwhile, the parent steroid molecule, 17b -hydroxy-5a -androst-1-en-3-one (1-Testosterone) was found to be twice as anabolic as Testosterone propionate and equipotent in terms of androgenic activity. Now, if all of this conflicting data doesn?t convince you these bioassays aren?t meant to be interpreted literally and aren?t very reliable or accurate, I don?t know what will.

After seeing this data, I hope it becomes clear that this type of data really isn?t worth much. Does that mean it has no value at all? I wouldn?t say that. Instead, I think if you see a general trend with the androgen molecule in question, you can assume it may be a more or less potent androgen agonist in general.

For instance, if androgen X has been shown in bioassays to consistently have an effect upon both the sexual accessory organs and the levator ani which is many times greater than that of, say, Testosterone propionate, you can likely assume androgen X is indeed a more potent agonist at the AR.

Does this also mean it?ll be more effective in terms of muscle growth? In most cases I?d say yes, but then again, DHT is a rather potent androgen agonist and it isn’t too impressive in terms of an anabolic effect.

Last, and just as important to keep in mind, is that although this particular bioassay may be generally effective in terms of assessing which compounds are or aren?t good androgen agonists, we must keep in mind that we don?t know all of the mechanisms involved when it comes to androgens and their effects upon muscle growth. There are indeed other mechanisms that are independent of the AR (androgen receptor) which allow for muscle growth, so using an assay which only assesses AR agonism is highly limited in terms of predicting the efficacy of an anabolic steroid.

In other words, more often than not, androgens that don?t bind well to the AR and primarily exert their effects via non-AR mediated mechanisms would be discounted due to a lack of effect in this particular bioassay, when in fact they’re very potent. For example, steroids with a potent antiglucocorticoid effect, which don?t bind avidly to the AR, would be dismissed."

  1. I have already bought some M1T, so I will post what I get out of it. But, while I have your attention, what is the best pro-steroid/pro-hormone androgen that anyone can buy (no matter the brand)??? Part deux of that is then what’s the best delivery method? (is Mag10 TRULY the best - in your honest to God, non-biased, double-blind scientific opinion???)

MAG-10 is currently the best, although, I’m admittedly biased. As for what has the best oral bioavailability, again, MAG-10. The ethylcarbonate ester affords much greater stability (due to the resonance effect of extra oxygen) than (e.g., acetate or propionate) esters, thus having greater resistance to basic hydrolysis and thus more likely to reach the liver with the ester still attached instead of it being cleaved while in the GI, and the delivery system used is also a rather up-to-date method of increasing the oral bioavailability of lipophilic compounds.

Thanks Cy!

Opinions and comments from all members are encouraged!!!

TopSirloin
[/quote]

I would put M-1-T in the better than nothing category. Once you do a well designed beginner ecycle for 16 weeks you won’t care about M-1-T.

Unlike real gear, M-1-T will cause strength gains that out pace growth. Every time I came off M-1-T I was sore and miserable for a while. If you add up the cost of all the supplements and food and compare it to real gear and food, they aren’t that different.

[I wrote a reply a couple hours ago, but I don’t see it here… so, forgive me if this shows up as a duplicate]

Cy- Thanks for the clarifications. I still didn’t see you mention anywhere in those articles that M1T actually worked… But, I got the jist of how you feel about it now. Still - how about my second question about what is the hands down best prohormone/legal gear???

PAP- Thanks for your thoughts. A couple things… I’m NOT looking to get into real gear. I don’t want to inject, nor really screw with my body for months on end. I simply want to add 5-10 pounds of beef to bust through a plateau. Also, anyone wanting to get big has to eat big, natural or not! An extra sandwich or two when on an androgen shouldn’t cost you that much! Also, strength gains are said to be 67% correlated with mass. If I gain 15% in strength, I should be able to theoretically gain 10% in mass. How come you didn’t think your growth kept up with your strength gains after coming off M1T… do you think you got enough protein??? More importantly, how would you rate the M1T results to other prohormone (not real gear) that you have used???

Thanks

TopSirloin

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
[I wrote a reply a couple hours ago, but I don’t see it here… so, forgive me if this shows up as a duplicate]

Cy- Thanks for the clarifications. I still didn’t see you mention anywhere in those articles that M1T actually worked… But, I got the jist of how you feel about it now. Still - how about my second question about what is the hands down best prohormone/legal gear???

Well, if you could point me to where I said it’s completely ineffective, that would be great. If you go back, you’ll simply see that I’m stating it’s not likely to be as potent as claimed but nowhere do I say it’s completely ineffective. Again, I don’t know where you’re interpreting that from.

As I said before, MAG-10 and 4-AD-EC are what I think are the best, due to the ethylcarbonate esters used and the delivery system. People seem to forget that not too long ago, Biotest sponsored an informal trial on a different message board using MAG-10 and the results were great. Keep in mind that these were experienced people who had extensive anabolic steroid use in the past and were pretty critical to begin with. See http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460456 for the details.

PAP- Thanks for your thoughts. A couple things… I’m NOT looking to get into real gear. I don’t want to inject, nor really screw with my body for months on end. I simply want to add 5-10 pounds of beef to bust through a plateau. Also, anyone wanting to get big has to eat big, natural or not! An extra sandwich or two when on an androgen shouldn’t cost you that much! Also, strength gains are said to be 67% correlated with mass. If I gain 15% in strength, I should be able to theoretically gain 10% in mass. How come you didn’t think your growth kept up with your strength gains after coming off M1T… do you think you got enough protein??? More importantly, how would you rate the M1T results to other prohormone (not real gear) that you have used???

Thanks

TopSirloin[/quote]

Cy,

Thanks for all of your knowledge.

I would like to satisfy my curiousity once and for all. Of the legal pro hormones, which would work the best in an injectable form and in what ester? Also, at what max dose would the risk to benefit ratio begin to favor risk?

Thanks

It’s worked very well for everyone I know who has tried it. 4-AD seems to cut down on the sides. But this is just real world experience.

If it works for the dead guy like Rick James it must do wonders for everyone else.

If the stuff is real, then it will work. i tried it for 10 days taking 20mg (10mgx2) a day, with 800mg of 4-ad powder a day. I went from 210-218.5. I was able to put up some personal bests in certain lifts. laters pk

thanks for reporting your feedback. i have had similar results, all though my bodyfat definitely went up. it’s seems very hard for me to find that balance in calories-in for growth and maintenance and calories-out, without fat gain (i think i need to reduce carbs during the day, upping them PWO). oh well, i think my gains are bigger and faster at a higher bodyfat than trying to stay leaner.

my first cycle was 14 days @ 20mg. being that i’m pushing 240lbs, i’m trying 14 days @ 40mg to see what that does. i took a two week off period to not risk hepatoxia. i believe these short cycles help to prevent liver distress. i’m also going to use an anti-e with this second go-round just to see what blocking e can add to the equation. probably stay on the anti-e even post-cycle for a couple weeks.

TopSirloin

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
it’s seems very hard for me to find that balance in calories-in for growth and maintenance and calories-out, without fat gain (i think i need to reduce carbs during the day, upping them PWO).

i’m trying 14 days @ 40mg to see what that does.

i’m also going to use an anti-e with this second go-round just to see what blocking e can add to the equation. probably stay on the anti-e even post-cycle for a couple weeks.
TopSirloin[/quote]

I don’t think i ever hit above 3500 calories in any given day. I definitely was consuming most of my carbs during and post workout. It is so difficult to get those extra calories. I made sure i was getting a minimum of 300 grams protein, sometimes up to 400 grams.

I would not move up to 40mg a day. I don’t think you can go by more is better. you need to have some patience at the lower dosages. I don’t like to exceed my normal strength gains because i feel i don’t give my body time to properly adapt.

Are you also stacking 4-ad. i believe that is a must. I don’t see any reason why you would need an anti-e while on unless you feel like you are getting a high conversion because of the 4-ad converting to testosterone. I highly doubt that.

for recovery right now i’m on tribex-500 6 caps a day, 50mg clomid, vitex cap, methoxy 2 servings, and ipriflavone 800mg, not to mention my continuing liver support supplements. My joints have been hurting me lately so i have started also taking some joint support supplements. I don’t know if it because of the methyl-test usage or not. laters pk

it’s not that i feel the 20mg/day wasn’t cutting it. i’m just a bigger guy and i thought that would be a more effective dosage at my weight of 240lbs.

no, i’m not stacking it w/ 4-AD-EC. i did hear it was a good with M1T though. maybe next cycle. i think i might hold off on the anti-e for post-cycle, when my natural T is trying to re-bound (which is why you are using clomid, correct?)

also, what brand did you take?

thanks,

TS

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
i think i might hold off on the anti-e for post-cycle, when my natural T is trying to re-bound (which is why you are using clomid, correct?)

also, what brand did you take?
TS[/quote]

the anti-e post cycle helps in natural testosterone rise. that is why they recommend taking M with the tribulus products.

i have the legal gear brand of M1T and the regular 4-ad powder from beyond a century.

i did notice a decrease in semen volume while on the androgens. The volume has definitely increased with the clomid. laters pk

I was actually quite impressed w/ the strength gains I got from m1t. I ran 525mg test enan. for 10 weeks as a base and alternated 2 weeks on and 1 off w/ different c17AA compounds. So weeks 1and2 were dbol 30mgs ed
4and5 were 75mg anadrol ed. 6and7 were 30mg m1t. And weeks 9 and 10 were 30mg anavar ed. Weight gain only went up 2-3lbs. over the 2 weeks that I was on m1t, but as I mentioned, strength gains were better than any of the orals I tried. For me, I needed to keep the nolva at 20mg ed because I noticed itchy nipples immediately. Hope this helps, and LMK if you have any Q’s.

MK

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:

From my research I have read that it is NOT a pro-steroid nor a pro-hormone - that it’s actually a true steroid. But, it’s not illegal (yet) and it’s not nearly as powerful as illegal anabolics.
[/quote]

Oh, I’ll give ya shit anyway.

I love the way people categorize “true steroids” and “pro-steroids” based on their legality.

Here is a shocker for you: there’s no such thing as a “pro-steroid”. The “pro-steroids” are actually anabolic steroids, period. All anabolic steroids are steroid hormones. And - get ready for this - so are the “pro-steroids” and “pro-hormones”. They are all totally and 100% true steroids.

Here is another shocker: several “illigal anabolics” are, in fact, a lot less powerful than the two compounds in Mag-10. It’s not marketing, it’s simple chemistry. Want examples? Andriol (testosterone undecanoate) and Proviron (mesterolone) immmediately come to mind, but there are quite a few more.

In a few months, androstenedione will officially become an “illigal anabolic” and will in fact be classified as an anabolic steroid. It won’t, however, become any more effective because of it.

What cani do to stop hair loss 'cos of DHt conversion?Would Finasteride and Minoxodil help .Pl let me know how i can prevent hair loss while opn M-1T