As I’ve always said in the past…
M1T is poison, with a side effect of muscle growth.
[quote]AlteredState wrote:
benmoore wrote:
[u]Its harsh as fuck, bad sides at decent doses, very hard shutdown, but its good stuff for the 4 weeks you run it, very sustainable gains… size and strength.
Makes your face puff up like a balloon though, its works well for cutting, appetite suppression, rather potent fat burner, its like tren, and the water retention goes away in like 3 days during PCT, but most guys just cant handle cutting, and being bloated, its just a mind fuck and it hurts.
Not to mention it cuts your cardiovascular endurance in half, your going to get winded and sweaty from jogging, cardio is so hard on M1T is almost not worth it, might as well wait till after cycle.[/u]
See now that has just re-opened my interest in the product. How hard is it to restart after a m1t induced shutdown? Any actual real horror stories of people who have taken it with the reccomended dosage, with liver support and a sensible OTC PCT?
There is something seriously wrong with you if the thought of bloating, harshness, reduced CV performance and other sides, just to get a poxy amount of muscle, piques your ‘interest’.
Real steroids work so much better and safer. As I tried to tell you via PM.[/quote]
Its shuts you down hard as anything Ive ever seen, takes about 5 days and your boys are no longer kicking.
I know a guy who got jaundice and ER level liver issues from a 6 weeker, and I had him run Nolva as a PCT too no OTC bullshit, with milk T as liver support pre, during, and post.
M1T is a real steroid, its just not a very good one. Im only running it because I need to use the rest of the stuff I bought a few years back.
Running it with a small dose of test would be the best plan, it kicks fast and gives high strength increases like Dbol, but is better for sustainable gains, especially stacked with test.
back in the day people used to run it with 4AD to prevent a majority of the sides… which is just a weak ass compound that converts to a very small amount of test.
I dont feel it should ever be run without test.
Its not a bad alternative to a dbol kick start.
Ive run it by itself before, and that sucked ass, but I did keep 15 of 20 pounds, and 90% of my strength increase.
15 pounds of lean is good for a 4-5 week run, no matter what compound your using, its harsh but it works.
[quote]benmoore wrote:
sensible OTC PCT?[/quote]
Oxymoron.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
benmoore wrote:
sensible OTC PCT?
Oxymoron.[/quote]
over the counter can be used for OVER THE COUNTER.
Never for real gear.
Its a common misconception that M1T isnt real gear because they got it sold as a PH until 2005 because of a weird loophole, its strong shit, and it shuts you down like a motherfucker.
M1T is an active compound, theres no conversion beyond the liver, but thats with any oral.
M1T is the methylated form of 1-test, which is is similar to a 5a reduced Equipoise, chemically.
Equipoise is pretty much Dbol without the 17a, but it acts more like tren or deca than dbol.
So like equipoise it is similar to Dbol chemically, but in reality gives very different results.
For all intensive purposes its a cross between Dbol and tren
I know that was rambling and confusing, but its how I understand it chemically.
But then again Im an engineer not a chemist, so any insight from someone with a little more chemical experience would be grand.
OTC PCT WTF?! OMG UR N IDIOT. Sounds like compound not worth a fuck. Narly sides, mild ejaculatory excuses for muscle gains. Might as well milk a bull for his anabolic compound. Steroid cell fellers?
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
OTC PCT WTF?! OMG UR N IDIOT. Sounds like compound not worth a fuck. Narly sides, mild ejaculatory excuses for muscle gains. Might as well milk a bull for his anabolic compound. Steroid cell fellers? [/quote]
Compound is worth plenty, it just has a very specific usage.
Lets put it this way, you can bulk with it, put 50 pounds on your bench, drop your recovery time to 30 seconds, and still lose bodyfat at a massive calorie surplus and no cardio.
How can you say 15 lean, sustainable pounds in 4 weeks is anything less than great ?
Stack it with test and your looking at 30 pounds in 6 weeks and a drop in bodyfat, 25 of which you keep.
Thats money right there.
I do not recommend the compound as it requires quite a bit of experience to use for an oral, and the health affects are severe compared to most substances.
But I wouldn’t dismiss it as useless, just not ideal.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
M1T is the methylated form of 1-test, which is is similar to a 5a reduced Equipoise, chemically.
Equipoise is pretty much Dbol without the 17a, but it acts more like tren or deca than dbol.
So like equipoise it is similar to Dbol chemically, but in reality gives very different results.
For all intensive purposes its a cross between Dbol and tren
I know that was rambling and confusing, but its how I understand it chemically.
But then again Im an engineer not a chemist, so any insight from someone with a little more chemical experience would be grand. [/quote]
While seeming logical, actually that sort of analysis doesn’t yield predictions any more accurate than drawing lots.
Some metabolisms can be figured from structural considerations, and sometimes some general ideas on bioavailability, but when it comes to side effects other than aromatization (which is predictable whether it occurs or not, though not necessarily predictable whether it’s important or not) they really are not predictable.
The human mind is incapable of accurately predicting the changes in shape that occur to a steroid as various changes are introduced to its structure from some other structure. It’s actually kind of fascinating to program a given structure into a computer modelling program that is capable of making such predictions fairly well, introducing a change, and then watching how the structure flexes from small changes, sometimes pretty drastically.
And even if we could predict from mental effort alone the changes in shape resulting from given changes in substituents, we could not with mental horsepower predict how this would affect psychological side effects, cardiovascular side effects, and so forth.
In other words, trying to compare an unproven – though methyl-1-T is now long since proven, proven to be nasty – steroidal androgen with other known structures to try to guess side effects results more in analysis paralysis or unintended self-deception than anything else. It’s just not feasible to predict this way.
Well to be fair my understanding of both the affects and side effects are from “personal experimentation”.
Yeah the fact that it cant aromatizatize is irrelevant because of its progesterone effects, not to mention estrogen rebound during PCT that must be well controlled. Just a heads up to anyone who wants to mess around with it, keep a SERM on hand and always use one as a PCT, dont use an AI, you need your estrogen to keep your body from saying “fuck you” and punishing you.
But yes I fully understand the flaws in looking at its chemical structure to determine affects.
Heck like I said equipose acts more like tren, buts its nearly chemically identical to Dbol, it was supposed to be a long half life dbol originally.
From personal experience I can tell you that M1T kicks fast and gives rapid strength gain like Dbol, but has water retention in the face, and fat burning effects that are much more similar to tren.
Hence my “cross between Dbol and tren” statement makes perfect sense both chemically and in a real world situation.
I agree that countless steroid books have made that analysis (relating boldenone to Dianabol) but I extremely seriously doubt that the medicinal chemists working on it were reasoning in that fashion.
The most that would have happened, IMO, would have been that Dianabol demonstrated that a 1,4-diene could have activity, therefore that feature of a proposed new compound, boldenone, might allow activity while having that diene structure.
And that since Dianabol was known to aromatize with the 1,4-diene structure, that the new compound might do so as well.
But for example, the effect of boldenone in tending to induce a fevered feeling or actual fever at higher doses was completely unpredictable from structure.
They probably knew even back then that adding or omitting a 17a-methyl very drastically changes the overall shape of an androgen steroid – the reason is that the 17a-position is axial (pointed up instead of outwards, which is called equatorial) and the strong tendency is going to be for the molecule to flex to get it as much away from axial as possible – so they could not or should not have expected boldenone to have similar shape and therefore not the same binding properties to various receptors as Dianabol does.
Steroid books tend to treat 17-methylation as if it just provides oral bioavailability and adds liver toxicity, but actually it drastically changes the shape of the entire structure.
For example, the no-17-methyl analogue of oxandrolone – identical to oxandrolone in every way but for that change – has zero activity as an anabolic or androgen. That’s how drastic the difference can be.
Or, back to the subject, methyl-1-T is much nastier than so-called 1-test was, “despite” the “only” difference being the 17-methyl.
It’s also much nastier than trenbolone plus Dianabol, which is a very nice combination both for results and pleasantness and safety of use, so actually I can’t agree with your characterization that it is like a cross between them.
I fully agree that a tren dbol cycle would be highly preferred, but it is worth noting that a lot of guys run M1T because they are scared to inject or simply because they cant get anything better.
M1T is rarely faked, its dirt cheap so theres no reason to, and alot of guys make good quality stuff in basement labs so its everywhere.
Its one of the better orals in terms of gains that you can actually hold on to after PCT.
So if your scared of needles, its one of the better options.
The real moral of the story is, inject, but I feel its worth putting some info out there for the guys who are going to run it anyways, against the better advice of others.
holy fucking shit, Bill Roberts!?
I realize this thread is ancient, but I wanted to corroborate what was said about M1T, for anyone searching the forums for info on this stuff.
I took a 5 week cycle @10mg x 1 per day. I kept 100% of the 15lbs I gained and about 90% of the strength.
No bones about it, M1T is an oral steroid. And it is harsh. The most prominent side effect I noticed was fatigue/lethargy, all throughout the day. I also had very little CV endurance while on it, and would sweat easily and often. I also noticed a MARKED decrease in libido. I could still perform, but in terms of wanting sex I could care less. I also noticed some testicular atrophy and a persistent “tightening” of my sac; that is, things were not relaxed down there.
I did not notice any significant water retention, acne, or gyno. Strength gains were awesome. Significant aggression increase. Weight gain came easily, but I was simultaneously on a bulk diet and training very hard.
All in all, for an oral, it works. But it is a dangerous thing to be putting in your body. Given the prominence of the side effects and unknown long-term effects, I would not recommend it.
So what exactly about it do you consider harsh or dangerous even?
What do you mean by ‘the prominence of the side effects’ and what would you consider the unknown long term effects to be (what is long term for starters and possible could you elaborate on how the side effects may present).
Was your skin more oily? Did you shower more frequently or use skin products?
Trouble passing urine at all after dosing? How old are you?
How much fat did you put on? I would expect quite a substantial amount or the drug is actually the second most potent steroid known to man (10mg/day for 5 weeks and 15lbs in lean body mass with no water retention?), with MethylTren being number one AFAIK, dosed in mcg rather than mg.
How long post cycle is it now, and did you run PCT drugs?
What are your physique statistics now and before?
Interesting though IMO, although i get confused between Methyl testosterone and M1T. Is yours the Pro-hormone or just methylated testosterone?
What is the structural difference between them? (I could look but i know that i will forget to!)
Cheers.
[quote] Brook wrote:
Interesting though IMO, although i get confused between Methyl testosterone and M1T. Is yours the Pro-hormone or just methylated testosterone?
What is the structural difference between them? (I could look but i know that i will forget to!)
Cheers.[/quote]
I know nothing about any of the PH variants, but methyl test is just straightforward, 17-methylated test.
M1T is (17) methylated 1-testosterone, and 1-testosterone is basically reduced (5AR’d) boldenone… double bond between the 1 and 2 positions.
Yes M1T is not methylated testosterone, its 1-testosterone.
Its very similiar to dbol in how it feels, but is quite a different drug.
It is quite strong, 20-40 mg of M1T will produce signifigant results in strength.
I suspect his gain is partially explained by fat gain, sometimes its difficult to tell the difference if you were lean to begin with as it isnt under the skin but rather distributed through the organs and such.
And probably also due to the fact that he sounds new to steroids in general.
Someone under their genetic potential taking even something stupid like prohormones is going to grow like a weed, especially with a good bulk diet and training program motivated by “juicing”.
But I suspect he likely netted himself a fair ammount of muscle. How long he can hang on to it is still to be seen.
M1T primarily skyrockets strength in my experience, making it hard to hold that new muscle that was built primarily by using heavier weights, when that strength fades.
10 pounds of muscle isnt unlikely in the long run, for a newer user.
Thanks mate - sound pretty standard (as i suspected) 
Sorry that wasn’t more thorough. I’m not an experienced user. To answer some of your questions:
[quote] Brook wrote:
So what exactly about it do you consider harsh or dangerous even?[/quote]
Well given that it is a methylated compound and falls under the 17-alpha alkylated designation, there is evidence linking 17-aa steroids to hepatic tumors and adenomas. I can provide PubMed links if you want them.
Well to me, feeling markedly lethargic all the time and having significant decreases in libido are prominent side effects. When I say unknown long-term effects, I mean that this compound in particular (17-aa-1-testosterone) does not have a long-term research profile. Other AAS in the 17-aa “family” have a bit more to substantiate claims of hepatotoxicity, so I am erring on the side of caution and assuming this compound has similar propensities when used for durations over 6 weeks or in doses exceeding 20 mg per day.
No.
No trouble passing urine, although I forgot to note I was urinating more frequently, 2-3 x per night whereas before I may have gone once during the night at most. Also very thirsty on this drug. I am 27.
Very little. I run pretty lean at baseline. Based on the my visible muscle separations and abdominal lines, my bf% did not fluctuate more than 1%, at most. As I said I was training very, very hard, and eating like a strongman.
About 6 weeks Post cycle. I ran (am running) Gaspari Novadex XT for PCT. It’s all I have access to.
Before: 206 lbs @ 6’ tall, ~10-12% BF.
After: 222 lbs, ~10-11% bf.
Now: 216 lbs, due to a stomach virus.
Bench went up 45 lbs, but I was also using a novel training approach. Squat saw similar increase.
What I have is 17-aa-1-testosterone, or test with a methyl group at the 17 carbon (I think, i’m not a chemist)
I could not tell you that for certain.
Also to note: I am new to steroids, but not to training. I have about 8 years of training under my belt. Some competitive powerlifting, and an upcoming strongman contest.
I dont think my gains were unworldly, but I was surprised at how quickly they came. I took this same product about 5 years ago when it was still legal, and did not see anything remotely close to these results. I think it was just a crap manufacturer.
If it was primarily water weight, I would have lost that by now. I wont discount some visceral fat but I wasnt eating a particularly fatty diet, so I think I can conservatively say I put on about 10 lbs of lean tissue.
To be honest, I would love to do it again, but as mentioned it isn’t the best drug. I have reservations about injections, so I’d prefer to stick with orals. I know injectables are superior, but I’m not that obsessed with having perfect results. I just like the boost in strength and weight gain. I would like to crest out at about 240, and I suspect this will be quite difficult without some AAS, given my frame.