T Nation

Metabolic Conditioning! WTF

im on facebook and in a pushup fan club, we were having a debate about posture in pushups. I said how form is important, to keep the back staright and go all the way down and up in a controlled pace, to prevent momentum from taking over.

Some twat said this:
“I think not locking arms and going quicker is better for metabolic training/conditioning. If you are farmiliar with kipping pullups, they aren’t strict pullups. Strict pullups are good for strenght, but kipping pullups are produce more work output and a lot of people say they are more benificial. I think this is the idea behind pushups as well”

Is he right or just full of shit??

[quote]WeaponXXX wrote:
im on facebook and in a pushup fan club, we were having a debate about posture in pushups. I said how form is important, to keep the back staright and go all the way down and up in a controlled pace, to prevent momentum from taking over.

Some twat said this:
“I think not locking arms and going quicker is better for metabolic training/conditioning. If you are farmiliar with kipping pullups, they aren’t strict pullups. Strict pullups are good for strenght, but kipping pullups are produce more work output and a lot of people say they are more benificial. I think this is the idea behind pushups as well”

Is he right or just full of shit??[/quote]

Not the same thing.

A correct kipping pullup is still full ROM movement. A pushup with bad form is a pushup with bad form.

Best analogy that I’ve found is:

A strict pullup is to a kipping pullup as a overhead press is to a push press.

Trying to compare a shitty pushup to a kipping pullup is not valid.

Pushups arent functional unless you do them on two medicine balls.

get off stupid ass facebook groups

[quote]Backlash79 wrote:
WeaponXXX wrote:
im on facebook and in a pushup fan club, we were having a debate about posture in pushups. I said how form is important, to keep the back staright and go all the way down and up in a controlled pace, to prevent momentum from taking over.

Some twat said this:
“I think not locking arms and going quicker is better for metabolic training/conditioning. If you are farmiliar with kipping pullups, they aren’t strict pullups. Strict pullups are good for strenght, but kipping pullups are produce more work output and a lot of people say they are more benificial. I think this is the idea behind pushups as well”

Is he right or just full of shit??

Not the same thing.

A correct kipping pullup is still full ROM movement. A pushup with bad form is a pushup with bad form.

Best analogy that I’ve found is:

A strict pullup is to a kipping pullup as a overhead press is to a push press.

Trying to compare a shitty pushup to a kipping pullup is not valid.
[/quote]

I agree here. I would say that if the guy on FB wants better metabolic conditioning he should do full ROM push ups faster. Think: to the point where his hands pop off the ground at the top. Developing force velocity is the key to using push ups as met con training.

You can tell by his terminology that he has read and MISunderstood some crossfit ideas. He should review his info to see that foot pounds of force are developed over a range of motion, full ROM being the most effective ROM.

-chris

[quote]GreenTerror79 wrote:
get off stupid ass facebook groups[/quote]

and do some pushups!!

I think the person might have just meant it’s easier to do them fast when you dont’ fully lock out. In fact if your doing a speed race you probably don’t want to lock out. Now that I think about it, i’ve rarely seen anybody over 18 fully lockout.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
GreenTerror79 wrote:
get off stupid ass facebook groups

and do some pushups!!

I think the person might have just meant it’s easier to do them fast when you dont’ fully lock out. In fact if your doing a speed race you probably don’t want to lock out. Now that I think about it, i’ve rarely seen anybody over 18 fully lockout.[/quote]

thanks.i will send him the link to this thread. Should shut him up.anyway im 20 and i fully lockout:)

[quote]WeaponXXX wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
GreenTerror79 wrote:
get off stupid ass facebook groups

and do some pushups!!

I think the person might have just meant it’s easier to do them fast when you dont’ fully lock out. In fact if your doing a speed race you probably don’t want to lock out. Now that I think about it, i’ve rarely seen anybody over 18 fully lockout.

thanks.i will send him the link to this thread. Should shut him up.anyway im 20 and i fully lockout:)[/quote]

If your doing high reps like 50, or jump pushups you might want to rethink that for your elbows. You wouldn’t squat and fully lockout, or jump and lockout, theres a good point right before lockout that is fine to stop at and it gets nearly the same rom.

If you want metabolic conditioning from pushups, try triple clap pushups like Ross Enamait.

[quote]Backlash79 wrote:
Best analogy that I’ve found is:

A strict pullup is to a kipping pullup as a overhead press is to a push press.

Trying to compare a shitty pushup to a kipping pullup is not valid.
[/quote]

This gets across the point that kipping pull-ups are a different movement, rather than an incorrect version of the same movement. It also makes the point that kipping uses momentum.

But after that it breaks down. The way the momentum is generated is different (push-press–hips stay in line w/ body; kip–they do the opposite), but more importantly, push-pressing allows you to put up a bigger max weight OR more reps, whereas kipping just lets you do more reps, but doesn’t help you do pull-ups with heavier weight.

But the crappy push-up: kipping pull-up analogy is just… not an analogy, for the reasons you already stated.