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Metabolic Conditioning Removed from Nautilus Principles?


Glad you are doing well after your heart attack.

If you don’t mind my asking, did any of your blood work show “signs” of higher cardiac risk prior to having it? I’m talking whether BMI and BF%, blood pressure, glucose, HDL/LDL ratio, triglycerides, C-Reactive Protein, homocysteine level, etc? I get these checked every couple of years only because I do have heart disease on my father’s side of the family. Thanks.

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Thank you. :+1:

Well, there’s the problem. There was none. I hadn’t seen a doctor except for emergency procedures in for ever. Literally. I’ve never just gone for a routine check up.

Nah. Even in acute trauma my bp has never been above 120/80, and on the way through the er the night of, my cholesterol was at 180. Not great ratio, but not terrible either. BMI was at mid 25’s, as I was about 5’9, 175 lbs. moderately athletic build.

Fwiw, in the time since then, even doing everything right (food, quit smoking, frequent cardio and weights) the same artery (circumflex) blocked up again to 95%, and was just reopened and stented again. In fact, I’m about 2 hrs. out from my next cardiac rehab appointment.

Best thing is to stay on top of it and catch it before any real damage occurs. Even at 95% blocked, apparently I did sustain some significant damage through ischemia adjacent to the previously damaged tissue.
We would have caught it sooner but there was a failed attempt to clear it in December of 2020.

:man_shrugging: Wtf can you do? Aside from avoiding piles of cocaine, booze, cigars, etc… :rofl: (I had some good times when I was in my 20’s)

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Since cardiovascular disease is the # 1 killer in the U.S.A., , you would think HiT gyms would get involved in cardiac rehabilitation programs. These programs are covered by most insurances. Attitudes toward cardiovascular conditioning would have to change first! Once upon a time, Arthur Jones was interested in osteoporosis. Nautilus, cardio, and :heart: Rehab could have been a perfect match. But HiT aficionados were more interested in bodybuilding. How did that go?

I’d be curious to see how many just HIT gyms there are around these days? Maybe X Force, Petrella’s gym and a few others scattered about but most gyms I see have weight machines for building muscle and elliptical , exercise bikes and the whole 9 yards . There’s a few gyms you see on Facebook etc that boast of using old Nautilus but those are the rare gyms, not the norm. Those gyms are not going to suddenly see the importance of cardio. Heart attacks are not their concern.

I feel like trying fight HIT in 2021 is silly. It’s mostly fallen out of favor in the mainstream, many of its biggest proponents like Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer are dead. I think most people that do HIT or any approaches like it (DC, Fortitude, high inventiveness, moderate to Lower volume routines) do so for the purpose of muscular hypertrophy. Attacking it for its effect on heart health is definitely an odd angle to take since that’s not really what it’s used for by most.


Good point, Dave!

I’ve bumped into two odd people during the past 1,5 years that knew about HIT (and they knew a lot - but did not practice HIT). I’ve heard about one other person who supposedly practiced HIT, at least before…

I talk a lot about physical excercise with people, both professionally and in the private sphere. That tells me something about how little people care about their routines. Then we have the Darden forum on T nation: Is it like 50 genuinely HIT interested people?

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My brother and I are literally the only people I know in real life that do or even have done HIT. I also don’t know anyone that lifts weights for heart health rather than strength or Hypertrophy.

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Isn’t Jones credited with saying something along the lines of “I can get people big on candy bars and cigarettes”

Of course, that’s back when Chesterfields were good for ya!

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Totally agree with you here. The one thing I’ll say is that I’m infuriated EVERY time I see someone talking about cardio “killing gains”, and I dunno if I’m the only one but I’ve seen and heard it quite a few times. People need to do cardiovascular exercise, and what I think @atp_4_me is saying - although I certainly disagree with some of his points - is that the claim that moving quickly between exercises is a sufficient amount of cardio for a healthy heart is bogus. And it is. It is not a replacement for steady state cardio, and does not give the heart the same benefits, and while I’m not convinced that HIT is bad for the heart, the point is, EVERYONE should be doing cardio, and nobody should be tricking themselves into thinking their super slow negative lifting routine is filling that void.


I do agree with you and ATP on that as well. Steady state cardio is essential for heart health and might actually make you look more jacked by burning more calories and thus losing more fat!

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And I agree with you as well!

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HIT is a very rare way of training these days…everyone that I know or anyone I see in the gym do not train anything close to HIT, it’s bro split training for a couple hours 5 to 6 days a week with nothing close to failure

But what is totally ironic is that cardio is extremely popular these days and heart attacks are still the number 1 killer…so, is it really a lifesaver

Cheeseburgers, sitting around and doing nothing, processed meat, pesticide-laced vegetables, low testosterone levels, salt-heavy foods, tobacco and e-cig alternatives, alcohol, pain meds and antidepressants are all fat more “popular” than cardio, and you’re questioning if steady state cardio is beneficial for the heart?


I am not questioning if it’s beneficial or not…as I believe it is

I just think it’s ironic that with all health craze going on…that it’s still the number one killer

Heart disease has been the number one killer for the past 80 years…even before some of things you mentioned

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HiT is good for the heart.
You must find a lifting technique that allow breathing while lifting. Valsalva drastically increased blood pressure and decreases venous blood return to the right atrium. Pre-load of the heart is extremely important for cardiovascular conditioning. This is where McGuff went awry . Full volumes of pre-load stretches the wall of the RA and builds elasticity. There is more to this. Original Super-Slow would enhance heart health if combined with proper cardiovascular conditioning. Imagine this: a patient has a heart attack. The patient is referred to a certified HiT cardiac center for 12 weeks rehabilitation paid for by insurance. Of course behavior therapy would be included. We can only dream. The realities are that millions were wasted on athletics, bodybuilders, and other studies that do not matter.


The Mrs. and myself did our Sunday w/o

Nautilus decline press, statics, 90 seconds
Nautilus leverage leg press / monster blue RB
Original Super-Slow. 8 reps

We wanted a quick w/o
I made freshly ground Hawaiian coffee for us, as this makes a great post-w/o drink! Lol


Looks like a hospital gym/rehab type place.

I agreed hard with all of this post and I probably liked it, but who can tell with the forum the way it is these days?

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Just curious. Does anyone know or have heard that any people who managed to reach to ripe old age of 100 did cardio?

I am not questioning the heart benefits of cardio, just wondering any centenarians credited their longevity to cardio.

In my family on my mothers side all the ladies lived into their late 80s to late 90s

The men lived into their 70s and 80s

On my father’s side…the ladies into their 80s

The men into their 70s

Myself and an older cousin are the only ones that perform any type of exercise…cardio or weights

So, is it your contention that excessive negatives (timewise) contribute to excessive DOMS?