T Nation

Metabolic/Anabolic diet

Hi, I was wondering if somebody who has done the anabolic/metabolic diet can
tell me if it’s a bad move to take a post-workout shake containing
water,protein (myofusion hydro) and aminos energy from ON while still
in my start-up phase of 12 days? according to the stats i will still be
under my 30grams of carbs a day. Plus i saw that the Myofusion contains
maltodextrine. Could really need some help on this one so i can switch it up right now
if needed.

You already have another thread asking the same question, which was answered.

You are fine if you are under 30g carbs per day.

Just because you have some maltodextrin doesn’t mean it’ll throw you out of keto.

Splenda packets have dextrose in them but the amounts are MINIMAL.

There are 2 monster threads. Use the search bar and read

I’ve tried but can’t find a good answer…

Webseeker, do you own a copy of the AD?

@Maf14,Yeah i’m sorry about me asking the same thing… It’s just that nobody really gave me a god answer. I’ve tried to look it up again today and it seems ok. Opti-men has maltodextrine in it an so has Myofusion.
@roybot,Yes i have a copy of the anabolic diet,anabolic solution and the metabolic diet. I read something about sweetners (my wife just bought one and i REJECTED IT!) and on some other sites i saw it could effect my transition. But after more reading i think the amounts are so minimal that it can’t hurt. Plus the fact that i have been training last week (3 times stronglifts 5x5) and 3 times low cardio and still lost almost 3 kilos (not my goal). I think my body is adapting. I was just trying to be sure and get some facts. The internet is FULL OF BS! Thx anyways for the comments,much appreciated.

[quote]Webseeker wrote:
I’ve tried but can’t find a good answer…[/quote]

Are you kidding me?! You can have it if you’re still UNDER 30g OF CARBS PER DAY.

0-cal sweetners are also fine. Legally they are allowed to be called “0 calorie” if their calories are less than 4. Therefore most have about 3 cals so during the induction phase, where it is most important to be strict with carbs, count each packet as 1g carb.

[quote]Webseeker wrote:
Yes i have a copy of the anabolic diet,anabolic solution and the metabolic diet. I read something about sweetners (my wife just bought one and i REJECTED IT!) and on some other sites i saw it could effect my transition. [/quote]

I asked because you seemed to be going by information gleaned from forums, namely the idea that you need to be at zero carbs to make the transition.

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]Webseeker wrote:
I’ve tried but can’t find a good answer…[/quote]

Are you kidding me?! You can have it if you’re still UNDER 30g OF CARBS PER DAY.[/quote]

I know that i can take up to 30 grams a day even in the start-up phase. before i even looked on forums about maltodextrine i was wondering about it because 1:Maltodextrin is a simple and easily digestable sugar, 2: Consuming sugar in any quantity not only knocks you out of ketosis, the more you consume the longer it takes you to get back into a ketogenic state. I believe i am in ketogenic state untill i get my first carb-up day, 12 hours ,3 meals day. I know it is a small amount i was just wondering about it because i was and i am using the shake after workouts from the start. The sweetener that my wife bought:D, was filled with fructose and sorbito(even in small amounts) i think it would be best to avoid it.

At the risk of being unpopular Id suggest the OP stay away from any supplemental protein sources during this break in period. The reason having nothing to do with carbs, but everything to do with insulin, which will also fuck up his ketogenic state. Protein Powders and especially isolated amino’s can spike insulin quite heavily.

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
At the risk of being unpopular Id suggest the OP stay away from any supplemental protein sources during this break in period. The reason having nothing to do with carbs, but everything to do with insulin, which will also fuck up his ketogenic state. Protein Powders and especially isolated amino’s can spike insulin quite heavily. [/quote]

I do not believe insulin it self will throw some one out of ketosis. I have never heard DH, MODOK or Di Pasquale mention anything like that so I can’t imagine it would be a issue that could slip by all of them…

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
At the risk of being unpopular Id suggest the OP stay away from any supplemental protein sources during this break in period. The reason having nothing to do with carbs, but everything to do with insulin, which will also fuck up his ketogenic state. Protein Powders and especially isolated amino’s can spike insulin quite heavily. [/quote]

I do not believe insulin it self will throw some one out of ketosis. I have never heard DH, MODOK or Di Pasquale mention anything like that so I can’t imagine it would be a issue that could slip by all of them…[/quote]
Im going by mostly what Im learning from Kiefer’s Carb Backloading here. He states that more than 10grams of whey isolate or even a large amount of fat from coconut oil can be enough to spike an insulin response that can knock you out of Ketosis.

Ill admit I dont think its a huge concern but for someone in the introductory stages of a ketogenic diet I think itd be prudent to limit any quickly digesting protein sources. And at the very least hope they are not taking protein powder on its own without a source of fats.

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
He states that more than 10grams of whey isolate or even a large amount of fat from coconut oil can be enough to spike an insulin response that can knock you out of Ketosis.[/quote]

That’s odd… I was under the impression that MCT’s put you deeper into ketosis. Di Pasquale also used to think MCT’s were a bad choice for Keto diets but recently said he was incorrect and now recommends them.

Is this stuff from Kiefer current or a few years back?

At first the diet may seem overwhelming but really its very simple. By staying as natural as possible you wont have to worry about all this sciency shit… Just eat a ass ton of meat, good fats, and stick to green leafy vegies and you will be fine. I’ve done this diet for the better part of 2 years once you expirement and play with it a bit depending on your goals its pretty efficiant. If you have a hard time with it you may want to try the cave man diet or paleo for a month or so becuase it makes for a easy transition into the AD lifestyle.

Seems like the OP is demonstrating to us the degree of mental fogginess that can be brought about during ketosis. :slight_smile:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
He states that more than 10grams of whey isolate or even a large amount of fat from coconut oil can be enough to spike an insulin response that can knock you out of Ketosis.[/quote]

That’s odd… I was under the impression that MCT’s put you deeper into ketosis. Di Pasquale also used to think MCT’s were a bad choice for Keto diets but recently said he was incorrect and now recommends them.

Is this stuff from Kiefer current or a few years back?[/quote]
Current. A small amount can prolong ketosis, but too much can do the opposite. Its dose dependant and based on the size of the individual. He recommends most men take no more than 1-2 Tbsp at a time. 2 Tbsp being for larger men.

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
At first the diet may seem overwhelming but really its very simple. By staying as natural as possible you wont have to worry about all this sciency shit… Just eat a ass ton of meat, good fats, and stick to green leafy vegies and you will be fine. I’ve done this diet for the better part of 2 years once you expirement and play with it a bit depending on your goals its pretty efficiant. If you have a hard time with it you may want to try the cave man diet or paleo for a month or so becuase it makes for a easy transition into the AD lifestyle.[/quote]
+1

The main problem I had when using the Anabolic diet was an over reliance on Protein Powder. I think I was afraid of going lower protein than I was used to and felt I had to supplement. But when you are on a high fat diet you really shouldnt take too much protein. You need your largest majority of calories to be fats. At least double the calories you get from protein to get the effectiveness imo. I also think this over supplementation of protein powder hindered my fat loss efforts by producing more insulin than acceptable.

Bottom line. If you are on this diet for fatloss stick with whole foods.

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Seems like the OP is demonstrating to us the degree of mental fogginess that can be brought about during ketosis. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Hahaha. No not really… Its more because i feel good. Only some dizzyness during workouts,but i was a little afraid that i knocked myself out of Ketosis. I don’t like to do this without knowing all the things i need to know for a FACT.