T Nation

Messed Myself Up with SARMs and Finasteride (Update: Restart Successful)

Thanks for the quick reply! I never took Finasteride, I did a DHT-derivative only cycle, but I have similiar symptoms. I am trying to get as much sleep as I can but my body wakes up after 3 hours every day, it’s very frustrating. Do you recommend working out? I can’t even imagine working out to be honest. I get tired and out of breath after a short walk. I will look up the video!

Thanks alot

Ok. It’s very good that you did not take finasteride. That shit is POISON.

Do not push yourself to workout. If you feel like shit exercising, that is your body screaming at you telling you NO. I kept trying to push push and push, and the end result was always bad. It’s very important that you listen to your body & only exercise when you physically feel good.

You will be OK. Keep your head up & overhaul your life, the changes will come much more rapidly once you’re in that relaxed, calm, parasymapthetic state.

Explore other things like HCG or clomid if your T is low with a medical professional like an endocrinologist. But implement everything else I have spoken about FIRST. What I am suggesting cannot harm you, if you think about it everything I’m saying is very logical & conductive to good health.

All the best, I’m out now for the day. Cheers.

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@jamilkh

Hey dude, check out this vid, not sure your story, but your HPTA could still just be suppressed from whatever compound you took. Some anabolics like nandralones can take 20 weeks for their suppressive effects to clear the system. Highly recommend watching, could give you a new perspective on your situation. Nonetheless, overhaul your lifestyle with what I’m saying. You will feel better regardless and allow your body to work its magic & heal.

I will take a look at it. My cycle finished last year october, so it’s been a couple months. I am taking hcg atm and will be continuing with clomid after. I will try man, thanks alot.

Also, how long did you run hcg before you noticed improvement in mood? And has it restored any of the size? I know you really don’t want to be on this forum, but would be helpful to know.

Hey dude, more good news, woke up with morning wood this morning! It didn’t last long, however its a huge step in the right direction for me, so im stoked.

I was on HCG for like 3 months, it increased my free testosterone from like 250 to 1000. The increase in T was huge, however I still had very little change in mood, wellbeing, energy levels, libido, erections etc. I was still a total wreck physically. This is why I have come to the conclusion that your testosterone levels are not everything, I had “Low T” tunnel vision, the most profound changes in my physical, mental & sexual health & wellbeing occurred once I eliminated stress & overhauled my lifestyle.

I saw no change in testicular size on HCG. My balls are still atrophied to this day.

Have you had your estrogen checked? My E2 was through the roof because my HCG dosage was so high. This could be causing you issues. From my experience, lower HCG dosages, like 500IU 3x per week, were much better in controlling estrogen.

That’s awesome man. Glad to hear that! I am the same right now bloods showed my test is at 1000, but I still have every symptom and don’t feel any different. You were on hcg for a pretty long time, im getting close to a month soon. Did you continue with serm after? The tunnel vision plus the insomnia are the worst symptoms by far, I hope they resolve soon. I will lower my dose furthermore as suggested.

I stopped HCG cold turkey with no SERM. My SHBG was already naturally high and I did not want to take something like clomid which is known to increase SHBG further. My natty T kicked back in almost instantly and I felt no change physically during the transition. If your natural SHBG (pre HCG) is on the lower end of the spectrum, I would however recommend using clomid or nolva to jumpstart your natty test production.

If your estrogen is really high from the HCG, this could be one possible explanation for all your symptoms. I was initially on some ridiculous dose like 1500 IU 3x per week and my E2 was just through the fkn roof.

Also what I mean by “Low T” tunnel vision, is the act of blaming all your issues on the testosterone. I was like this for over 1.5 YEARS. Convinced I just needed to rectify my testosterone levels back to high normal and everything would be okay. The body is so much more complicated & complex than that, there are so many different physiological processes contributing to your current experience & symptoms. The testosterone is very important, but don’t blame every symptom on testosterone is what I’m trying to tell you.

If you’re on your phone / computer right up until you go to sleep, do not expect to have refreshing sleep and do not expect to fix your insomnia. I used to have severe insomnia and when I did sleep I woke up 3-4 times a night. From my experience, you need to avoid artificial light & stimulation at night, instead spend the time unwiding & relaxing, listen to some chill music, read a book. etc, it’s crucial. Check out this video for fixing your insomnia.

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I’ve been following this guys advice for a couple months now and only now am I seeing results with my libido & erections. You may not have “adrenal fatigue” per say, however your Hypothalamus Pituitary Axis is totally out of balance, and this is the best advice you can follow to help your body achieve homeostasis & repair itself. You need to help & support your body to enter that pro-healing state, and these are his best videos imo on how to do that.

The same advice he gives for adrenal fatigue / CFS / ME / Lyme / etc, applys for Low T / low libido. When the body is under a chronic state of survival, stress, fight or flight, sympathetic nervous system dominance, the body de-prioritises reproduction and consequently downregulates Libido and the production of sex hormones (testosterone). Staying calm & relaxed, focusing on good high quality sleep, and norishing your body with lots of healthy anti-inflammatory foods is the key to healing!

Sorry for the massive rant, I just genuinely want to help, I know how horrible your current situation is! @jamilkh

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I checked out his channel, will look at the videoes provided. Thanks alot man, really appreciate you taking time to reply.

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I’m feeling very tired and sleepy these days. Today I could not get out of bed at all. Is this a sign that I need to rest and sleep as much as I can or do I need to go out for walks etc?

I woke up with morning wood again today. I used to not be able to get out of bed as well, would wake up feeling absolutely dreadful with no energy, felt like a lifeless zombie. Now when I wake up I can actually feel my body pumping me full of hormones like cortisol, adrenaline and testosterone.

You need to rest. Listen to your body. If you don’t feel like physically exerting yourself, this is your body telling you NO and you need to listen. I was in the same situation as you with debilitating chronic fatigue and I kept trying to force myself to go for walks, runs and workouts. I kept trying to push and push and push, and it made my situation so much worse, like honestly 1000x worse. Do not force yourself to do something if your body physically doesn’t feel good.

If you do decide to go for a walk or do some exercise, monitor how you physically feel in the hours and days after. If you feel worse off for it, then that is your body again telling you NO.

If you get incredibly bored, I recommend doing relaxing things like listening to a podcast or audiobook. The worst thing you can be doing is scrolling social media, jumping between multiple tabs on the internet, watching short highly stimulating videos, playing violent computer games etc. Our brains and body did not evolve with this fast paced highly stimulating technology, sure it’s fine for a perfectly healthy human, but when you are chronically ill it inhibits your ability to achieve states of deep rest required for healing & recovery.

I know what I’m saying is hard given how addicted we are to shitty foods, our phones & computers, and other bad habits, however do you want to look back 6 months from now and regret not making positive changes to your life now?

Hey dude, 250IU 3x per week of HCG as I initially suggested might be too low in reflection. I would drop to like 500 IU or 750 IU 3x per week instead, get some bloods done 2-3wks, and readjust as needed.

You want to put your body in the best possible position to have a successful restart once you come off the HCG/clomid. In my opinion & from my experience, what I’m preaching here is the best way for you to achieve that. Good luck and I wish you all the best of luck with your recovery. Stay positive and never give up.

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Worried about you brother, do not make a permanent decision to fix a temporary problem. It’s not in your head, but don’t let it become a mental issue. Let your body recover. Follow the protocol. I was there bro trust me, I have made huge improvements with less clinical involvement than you. You’re in a better place than me, and if I recovered mostly you will too bro. Just focus on what matters, libido and all that won’t come if you keep looking for it. Let it find you. Sounds corny but mind over matter.

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Thanks for the comment brother. I honestly don’t even care about libido or the sexual symptoms. It’s the anhedonia, brainfog, and insomnia that keep tearing me apart. I don’t feel like I am here, everything just seem so surreal and as If I am in a dream like state. I fall out of conversations so easily and have to try and focus so damn hard to understand simple conversations. Something is seriously skewed, like my family could die and I would not even be able to feel it. Someone could point a gun at me and I wouldn’t get that fight or flight instinct. My dopamine system is totally messed up.

Hey dude, I was there too, I had severe anhedonia & brainfog. Exactly as you described it - I would feel like I was almost about to faint when trying to hold a conversation. Every endocrinologist / doctor I saw just said I was depressed with anhedonia & would just prescribe me SSRIs.

Your body is deteriorating. Educate yourself on the mind-body connection and the impact a severely burdened body has on your cognitive function & mental health. Recognise that there is nothing seriously broken with your body, it is just reacting to the hostile environment & hostile conditions you have put it through. Fix your diet, fix your sleep, fix your lifestyle, and be patient, consistency is the most important element here. Resolving your insomnia is CRUCIAL, sleep is #1, get a solid sleep routine going and be dedicated and consistent, it may take months to fix. Check out Shawn Stevensons book “Sleep Smarter”. As I’ve said before, I can not recommend Health Recovery highly enough. His advice is the best you can follow for your situation.

My opinion on the anhedonia thing is it is the result of the constant bombardment and consequent downregulation of our dopamine receptors through porn, video games, social media, etc, is seriously frying our brains. The human brain did not evolve with this level of stimulation.

Some more videos for you to check out. Hang in there man.