T Nation

Messed Myself Up with SARMs and Finasteride (Update: Restart Successful)

Update 9/Jan/2020
Free testosterone has increased significantly after a restart with HCG. I am doing much better and have recently started exercising again. More details on current status in comments (comment #47).

Currently my serum T is at about 800ng/dL, original post below.
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Hi all, I messed myself up with sarms & finasteride a while back - bloods below. The initial crash saw my TT drop to zero. Liver lipids returned high. PCT was 1 month of Nolva & Clomid. Eight months down the track I’m still yet to recover with a FT of only 252 pmol/L. I’m 23 years old.

The low T is really effecting my life - zero libido, fatigue and brain fog. Nuts hang up to the body really tight. There was some weeks in the months following the initial crash where I felt normal, but for the past few months the low T symptoms have been consistent.

Endos advice is that my hormones are still in recovery. His advice is to wait it out. Testicle ultrasound returned normal.

I’m hesitant to try any kind of HPTA restart with serms given the already high SHBG.

Diet is healthy, no processed foods, high in fats. Have already tried supplementing with vit D, ZMA, etc…

I’m happy to battle on like this if there is a chance of recovering naturally, and this is where I’m seeking input from the community here at T Nation. Would appreciate some thoughts on my situation to assist in my decision making to jump on TRT now or wait and see If i recover naturally.

Could this be post finasteride syndrome?

Sick of feeling like shit and just want my life back! Many thanks for the thoughts everyone.

Bloods 1 month after initial crash (On Nolva & Clomid):
FSH 11.2 (1.5-9.7)
LH 5.1 (1.8-9.2)
Prolactin 283 mIU/L (90-400)
Oestradiol 68 pmol/L (<160)
TT 21.7 nmol/L (12.0-31.9)
SHBG 57 nmol/L (17-56)
FT 327 pmol/L (260-740)

Bloods 7 month after initial crash (No serms or test boosters for 6 months):
FSH 10.7 (1.5-9.7)
LH 5.3 (1.8-9.2)
Oestradiol <70 pmol/L
TT 16.8 nmol/L (12.0-31.9)
SHBG 54 nmol/L (17-56)
FT 252 pmol/L (260-740)
TSH 2.12 mU/L (0.5-5.5)

Currently at 8 months since the initial crash (October 2018).

The strange thing is your pituitary seems to be working fine. Your LH level is almost optimal. For the prolactine you may benefit to drop it down a bit but with LH that value Im not sure its necessary.

Seems the problem is somewhere with the testicles or you have some severe deficiency.

Also tour free test is extremely low compared to the total test. Im not sure how that happens. And SHBG its hight but its not that high.

You can start by testing all vitamins and micronutrients like vit d, magnesium, zinc, whatever other vitamins you can get and dhea.

Then I would advise making a full thyroid panel including t3 and reverse t3. If pituitary works fine its very likely to have thyroid issues.

In my mind its not SARMs that fucked you up but the finasteride. This is poison and should be totally illegal. I do understand how many people mess with that shit…

In fact I sea slightly elevated TSH.

TSH above 2.0 usually speaks for thyroid issues. If tour endo had any brains he would order you full thyroid panel. But this is how all endos around the world are…

FSH levels tells me something is up with the testicles, similar to how high LH would indicate a problem with the testicles. Your doctor needs to treat the symptoms at this point, the numbers are meaningless if you feel like crap.

Yep, I totally missed the FSH.

But I also would not rule out thyroid up to this point.

Thanks for the feedback. I’ve already been supplementing with multi V, vid D, magnesium, zinc, omega 3, ashwsganda, etc, even selenium & iodine for thyriod. I’ve been doing everything in my power to naturally recover.

Found another blood test I took around the 7 month mark which suggests LH defficiecy.

FSH 9.0 (1.5-9.7)
LH 2.9 (1.8-9.2)
OESTRADIOL <70 (<160)
TT 15.5 (12.0-31.9)
SHBG 50 (17-56)
FT 246 (260-740)

After 8 months of waiting I’m now open to TRT

Had a similar experience to you. Take trt, try not to use an ai, minimal hcg, and you’ll be fine in a few months back to normal. If you’re experiencing depression, I’ve had great luck with low dose ssri and therapy over the years (prior even to finasteride). Many here are against SSRIs but I’ve had only positive results and have gone on and off multiple times.

Stay off negative forums and rebuild yourself. You will be ok

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Thank you all for the advice guys.

Thought I’d share - went to my GP for another set of blood tests, he wanted to prescribe me SSRIs and tried to convince me there’s nothing wrong with my test levels! I’m in Australia.

Off to see a TRT specialist (Adrian Zentner) in a few weeks. I will be pushing for TRT. I’ll also push for HCG and an AI, is it normal practice to start taking all 3 initially?

Appreciate the help all

Avoid using an AI altogether if possible. Start test all by itself and get dialed in then add hcg if you still want to. You add the two together and have problems you won’t know what is causing it.

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Trt at age 23? That seems aggressive.

PS whatever you were taking that got you here was not a SARM. Liver values don’t come back skewed from SARMs. That sounds more like prohormones/designer steroid territory.

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YK-11 is sold as a sarm but the chemical structure makes it look really similar to an oral methylated steroid.

Are you taking any nsaids or Excedrin or Tylenol. Before I jumped on HRT I was taking alot of these things daily because of feeling like shit and headaches. Estro was through the roof causing it but all of those drugs elevated my liver/kidney markers on my first blood test.

Not taking anything other some vitamins. Given bloods and symptoms have not improved, I’m convinced something must be broken

Quite possible I was taking a prohormone advertised as a sarm

I know I’m very young for trt, but what’s the point in waiting till I’m older when I’m currently living a half life, too fatigued and tired to live my dreams and accomplish my goals

SARMS don’t tank your hormones. Mild suppression, probably, bit.mosy bounce back even without PCT. You probably got SARMS from a shitty source, and you in fact got something else.

My question is: why do people slack on their sources when it comes to SARMS but not AAS?

This is why SARMS get a fucked up rep.

In Australia there is a war against TRT it will be very difficult to get it there.

Better seek telemedicine consultation with a US doctor.

@weightliftingwithoutlimits could have been the finasteride, who knows

@vonko1988 this is a decent idea. Can the US Dr issue prescriptions for use in Australia? Any suggestions on Drs?

Im not sure how this is formed legally man.

Sarms do cause shutdown.

Literature shows 1mg of lgd causes supression, the shut-down is dose dependent. With like 2mg TT tanks by more than 50 percent if I remember correctly, lipids also take a beating… Now people take 10-20mg/day, sarms cause shutdown just like AAS

Sarms get a fucked rep because people take them expecting to get off Scot free without any sides. High blood pressure, vision troubles (S4), shutdown, trashed lipids can all be expected from sarms

I didn’t find it very difficult to get trt in Aus, sure it’s a pain in the ass, and the time it takes to get dialed in is like 1 year, but I was able to get trt with a TT of 260

Yes, so noobs who have no place taking SARMS or AAS.

The people getting fucked up by these are usually those that 1) no fuck all about training and nutrition 2) have built no base 3) take them for two long 4) Up the dose because bruh, I can’t feel the gains 5) Don’t know how to critically read and analyse scientific publications on the compound they want to cycle. 6) slack on their sources cause bruh, Google is easy.

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I agree with your comments. In my case I was taking ostarine (least suppressive sarm), at the recommended dose, for only 7wks and did a proper pct.

So either I was sold a prohormone labelled as ostarine, or the finasteride is what did the damage

@unreal24278 what state you in man, incase I need a fallback if the endo & GP I’m seeing shortly aren’t willing to help