T Nation

Men Ages 18-25

Go to your local post office. Somewhere in the lobby, you will find a table. On that table, will be a simple looking gray placard with lots of paperwork. It will say something about the selective service. Fill out the card, and mail it in. I beleive that Uncle Sam even pays the postage for you. Then, you will get a nifty little card in the mail, with your name, address, date of birth, and you Selective Service Number.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061119/pl_nm/usa_politics_draft_dc

Doubt it.

One can always hope…

Rep. Rangel Will Seek to Reinstate Draft

By JOHN HEILPRIN
The Associated Press
Sunday, November 19, 2006; 4:11 PM

WASHINGTON – Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.

Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars and to bolster U.S. troop levels insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.

“There’s no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm’s way,” Rangel said.

Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose a measure early next year.

In 2003, he proposed a measure covering people age 18 to 26. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42; it went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.

Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the Nov. 7 election.

At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, “I don’t see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft,” said Rangel, who also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.

“I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can’t, then we’ll look for some other option,” said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.

Rangel, the next chairman of the House tax-writing committee, said he worried the military was being strained by its overseas commitments.

“If we’re going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can’t do that without a draft,” Rangel said.

He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, “young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it’s our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals,” with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.

Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military “represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background.”

Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.

Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that “there isn’t a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back.”

Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public’s mind.

The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. An agency independent of the Defense Department, the Selective Service System trains, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 _ now about 16 million _ from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces.

Rangel and Graham appeared on “Face the Nation” on CBS.

Yup.

When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Anybody who believes in American hegemony, America the World’s Policeman, America the Super-Power, and all that jazz should be prepared to pay increased taxes and submit themselves for conscription. Otherwise, there’s just no way forward with any of those agendas.

Alternatively, I 'spose, one could just stop thumping one’s chest quite so much.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…[/quote]

Just like all those American slaves fighting WW2.

It’s also worthwhile to point out, here, laddies, that we ALREADY HAVE A DRAFT in this country. It’s called a “backdoor” draft and it only applies to those who already have served. Who have already served, dammit. That draft is going like a house on fire this very moment, dragging veterans back for third and fourth tours of duty in Rummyworld.

Think about that a moment. If you support the troops, how do you NOT support conscription?

Or would you rather plump for immediate drawdown from Iraq?

[quote]doogie wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Just like all those American slaves fighting WW2.[/quote]

…what?

Most of the WWII participants were voluntary. It was an “exciting” war, for lack of a better term. It was “justified” to many of the volunteers.

[quote]doogie wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Just like all those American slaves fighting WW2.[/quote]

Don’t put words in my mouth…and funny how you go right to WWII.

I would fight if I felt it a worthy cause- I would have enlisted for WW II.

For WWI or Vietnam or Iraq…not so much.

No scumbag politician will have me fight so as to line his own pockets while his own sons are safe at home…

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
It’s also worthwhile to point out, here, laddies, that we ALREADY HAVE A DRAFT in this country. It’s called a “backdoor” draft and it only applies to those who already have served. Who have already served, dammit. That draft is going like a house on fire this very moment, dragging veterans back for third and fourth tours of duty in Rummyworld.

Think about that a moment. If you support the troops, how do you NOT support conscription?

Or would you rather plump for immediate drawdown from Iraq?[/quote]

The “Backdoor Draft” is a load of crap. It is clearly stated in our enlistment papers that you will serve a designated number of years in the inactive reserve after your discharge, and during that period you will be subject to recall. Whiney fuckers who didn’t read their enlistment or discharge documents like to cry about it. The press likes to hold up IRR recalls like it is an indication that we need a draft. The Individual Ready Reserve is part of enlisting or accepting a commission. You signed the papers, sack up and put your uniform back on.
Oh yeah, I can speak pretty well for most of the military and say that we don’t want the draft. We don’t need every joe from the street coming into the military. At least we can screen out some of the idiots and criminals before they get to bootcamp. Don’t get your panties in an uproar ladies. Rangel is trying to make a statement about something or other that nobody is really paying attention to. He knows that he gets press every time he brings up the draft. There isn’t going to be a draft, so volunteer if you feel like it. Or go back to sleeping under the blanket of freedom that I provide.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
It’s also worthwhile to point out, here, laddies, that we ALREADY HAVE A DRAFT in this country. It’s called a “backdoor” draft and it only applies to those who already have served. Who have already served, dammit. That draft is going like a house on fire this very moment, dragging veterans back for third and fourth tours of duty in Rummyworld.

Think about that a moment. If you support the troops, how do you NOT support conscription?

Or would you rather plump for immediate drawdown from Iraq?[/quote]

Sounds fair enough.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
doogie wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Just like all those American slaves fighting WW2.

Don’t put words in my mouth…and funny how you go right to WWII.

I would fight if I felt it a worthy cause- I would have enlisted for WW II.

For WWI or Vietnam or Iraq…not so much.

No scumbag politician will have me fight so as to line his own pockets while his own sons are safe at home…

[/quote]
Good point. If everybody just said “screw you” there wouldn’t be any large wars. fuck em.

[quote]BH6 wrote:
endgamer711 wrote:
It’s also worthwhile to point out, here, laddies, that we ALREADY HAVE A DRAFT in this country. It’s called a “backdoor” draft and it only applies to those who already have served. Who have already served, dammit. That draft is going like a house on fire this very moment, dragging veterans back for third and fourth tours of duty in Rummyworld.

Think about that a moment. If you support the troops, how do you NOT support conscription?

Or would you rather plump for immediate drawdown from Iraq?

The “Backdoor Draft” is a load of crap. It is clearly stated in our enlistment papers that you will serve a designated number of years in the inactive reserve after your discharge, and during that period you will be subject to recall. Whiney fuckers who didn’t read their enlistment or discharge documents like to cry about it. The press likes to hold up IRR recalls like it is an indication that we need a draft. The Individual Ready Reserve is part of enlisting or accepting a commission. You signed the papers, sack up and put your uniform back on.
Oh yeah, I can speak pretty well for most of the military and say that we don’t want the draft. We don’t need every joe from the street coming into the military. At least we can screen out some of the idiots and criminals before they get to bootcamp. Don’t get your panties in an uproar ladies. Rangel is trying to make a statement about something or other that nobody is really paying attention to. He knows that he gets press every time he brings up the draft. There isn’t going to be a draft, so volunteer if you feel like it. Or go back to sleeping under the blanket of freedom that I provide. [/quote]

Nicely said. IRR pussies are the worst. Everyone knows that they are enlisting for 8 years instead of 4. It had just been so long since the IRR was used that they signed up assuming those last 4 years would be a freebie.

That said, I will never support a draft. If the American people are not willing to volunteer to save their country, then the country does not deserve to be saved.

mike

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…[/quote]

Right. The right to self preservation is the most primal and inarguable natural right of man. Sending a man into a warzone against his will is a gross violation fo that right.

mike

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
It’s also worthwhile to point out, here, laddies, that we ALREADY HAVE A DRAFT in this country. It’s called a “backdoor” draft and it only applies to those who already have served. Who have already served, dammit. That draft is going like a house on fire this very moment, dragging veterans back for third and fourth tours of duty in Rummyworld.

Think about that a moment. If you support the troops, how do you NOT support conscription?

Or would you rather plump for immediate drawdown from Iraq?[/quote]

Personally, I didn’t want to go to Iraq in the first place, and if it were my choice, I would order all U.S. troops out of iraq, starting now.

If I were drafted, I would go, wether or not I agree with the war, just because thats the price that young American Males have to pay. But this Rangel idiot sounds like he wants everyone to spend 2 years in the military, regardless of need. And I don’t really beleive in that.

I served as part of the first completely “volunteer” Army back in the '70s. At first things were pretty good, but then it started going downhill. This was a time when many judges told every thief, thug and petty criminal that they could avoid jail time by joining the Army. I probably would have re-upped, they were waving Staff Sgt under my nose, but I just couldn’t put up with the low-lifes anymore.

I’m sure it’s better now, or was anyway. The bar had been going up for several years until this mis-adventure in Iraq. Now the Army will take anyone who can walk and tie their combat boots.

I have always thought a mandatory two year enlistment for every 17-18 year old would be a good idea, followed by a 4 year reserve. You get some money for college and real-world experience outside of your hometown, and the military gets millions of trained reservists. The active duty military could be pared back in time of peace, but ramped up rapidly in time of need.

[quote]tme wrote:I have always thought a mandatory two year enlistment for every 17-18 year old would be a good idea, followed by a 4 year reserve.
[/quote]

I would agree if it really applied to every 17 - 18 year old. Women and wealthy included. Our heros have long been over represented by the sons of the middle and lower class. If we are going to fight a war, then everyone should be given an equal opportunity to die for their country. No exceptions. No deferments. No “other priorities”. I waited until I was 21 to start college. They can too.

The draft should unequivocally be brought back, all Americans 18-24 should serve their country in some way shape or form. Service to your country does not only include going to war for your country. Let me tell you how I see it, and Im damn near almost always right. Had there been a draft in place before the war in Iraq we would have never gone to Iraq in the first place. The conflict in Afganistan would be over by now and the rebuilding of that country be far beyond the point it is now. We would see financial savings by having soldiers do what is now being contracted out to do. This is a trend that I see as fundamentally wrong, and the future will show this practice to be a dismall failure. Plain and simple, due to the quaqmire in Iraq, potential conflicts with Iran and North Korea warrant the need to reinstate the draft. This would have the affect of dramatically bolstering our defense posture. Now is the time to start training all fine young American men and women for the defense of their country, not just a select few.

The draft should unequivocally be brought back, all Americans 18-24 should serve their country in some way shape or form. Service to your country does not only include going to war for your country. Let me tell you how I see it, and Im damn near almost always right. Had there been a draft in place before the war in Iraq we would have never gone to Iraq in the first place.

The conflict in Afganistan would be over by now and the rebuilding of that country be far beyond the point it is now. We would see financial savings by having soldiers do what is now being contracted out to do. This is a trend that I see as fundamentally wrong, and the future will show this practice to be a dismall failure. Plain and simple, due to the quaqmire in Iraq, potential conflicts with Iran and North Korea warrant the need to reinstate the draft. This would have the affect of dramatically bolstering our defense posture. Now is the time to start training all fine young American men and women for the defense of their country, not just a select few.