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Meditation for Recovery

Thinking about incorporating 30 minutes of meditation 3 days/week for recovery and just general stress relief.

I’ve heard it works wonders at activating your parasympathetic NS and helping your body “rest and digest” more effectively, but I’d love to hear from some people who have experience with meditation before. What did you like/dislike? Advantages/Disadvantages?

I do believe this is beneficial. I do not know if the assumption that you can actively switch your autonomous nervous system to parasympathetic mode to help your body repair and recover is true, or if it actually improves cns recovery, but i found out that evening bookreading in my bed helps me recover better. I believe it to be highly probable that as much as you can hinder your recovery process by staying in stress-/actionmode, you can improve it by passing more of your time in a calm and relaxed state.

Cheers,
Chris

i think if you did yoga instead you would get benefits of meditation + some stretching which may help recovery

I used to do tai chi seriously, and still incorporate some meditation. I am a big fan. However, you need to do it properly, and I find that yoga does not have the meditative aspect. At least not done in a group class setting as everybody learns it. I much prefer straight meditation.

Also, as goofy as it may sound, I suggest you also do some more “traditional” Chinese reading on Qigong and meditation in general. It is not necesssry to buy into the notion of the Chinese mysticism or any of the supernatural “chi” effects, but it does create a handy visualization tool to keep you focused and explain sensations you may or may not feel.

Ive written on this subject at some length before in other threads, so most ppl should know I am a scientist first :). But I do view the traditional explanations as having value–thinking of it this way: if you had to teach peasant farmers with no knowledge of anatomy and physiology, and no education whatsoever, how would you explain where you want their focus in martial arts technques? And how would you explain the sensations of fatigue or the process of improving? The obvious answer for the ancients was “chi”. It took familiar spiritual concepts
and applied them to the physical. So no need to buy into the supernatural craziness if you are an athiest, agnostic, or Christian/muslim etc.

Oops! Hit submit too soon…

But you can use the traditional language and concepts for visualization and focusing purposes without compromising your worldviews with regard to the spiritual or supernatural aspect of chi. Obviously if you choose to delve into the deeper spiritual philosophies there will come a point you need to reconcile the empirical agnosticism or your current spiritual worldview with what you are reading to determine where you stand, but there is absolutely no need to concern yourself with that when practicing and learning meditation–you simplu use the traditional language of “chi” as a metaphorical construct to focus with, much the samd way as you would visualize your pre-game successes in sports psychology (visualize the feeling as detsiled as you can of hitting the basevall, making the tackle, juking the defender, etc).

Sorrt for the typos, im om my phone. Also, 30 minutes is a LOT to start with and stay focused. Try good focus for 10 minutes, then work up from there. You can do 10 minutes daily pretty easily if you are disciplined to put it in a routine.

You also might want to look into binaural beats and brainwave entrainment.

That sounds fancier than it really is. You just play one tone in one ear, and another in the other ear, that’s close but not quite the same. By using different frequencies, you can actually change the prevalence of different brainwaves.

For relaxing, somewhere in the 5-12Hz range works really well and helps create a meditative state.

On top of that… progressive relaxation. And learn a few different breathing patterns to help relax.

One that I like is: breathe in to the count of 1, out 2, in 2, out 4, in 3, out 6… etc.

Work up to breathing in to the count of 8, double that breathing out, then work back down to 1. 3 cycles of that, and you’ll usually end up pretty relaxed.

Well any energy plus is a plus. I used them all, meditation, taichi, yoga, better nutrition. I will get attacked but i laugh at all these proteins being ingested for better results or at least they hope for. They produce lots of residue added to exercises residue guys need ridiculous recovery time.

Do not believe me. The Mighty Stu just posted that better nutrition = shorter recovery.
Look at yoga exercise/stretch for glands over the kidney that will keep recovery short.
Try it cut 25% from proteins intake. Carbs are not villains they produce less residue = shorter recovery.
Obviously they are not all equals. I talk about clean eating, potatoes, etc… many people live mainly on potatoes and never see a doctor.
Well lucky me online i might survive the attacks.
About the best form, they are all good, find a good teacher, that makes the difference. I was lucky i can assure you he or she is worth gold.

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Well any energy plus is a plus. I used them all, meditation, taichi, yoga, better nutrition. I will get attacked but i laugh at all these proteins being ingested for better results or at least they hope for. They produce lots of residue added to exercises residue guys need ridiculous recovery time.

Do not believe me. The Mighty Stu just posted that better nutrition = shorter recovery.
Look at yoga exercise/stretch for glands over the kidney that will keep recovery short.
Try it cut 25% from proteins intake. Carbs are not villains they produce less residue = shorter recovery.
Obviously they are not all equals. I talk about clean eating, potatoes, etc… many people live mainly on potatoes and never see a doctor.
Well lucky me online i might survive the attacks.
About the best form, they are all good, find a good teacher, that makes the difference. I was lucky i can assure you he or she is worth gold.[/quote]

Yeah…unfortunately for you that is not a sound reason to “laugh at all these proteins being ingested for better results or at least they hope for”. Protein intake leads to shorter recovery time, as do specific kinds of protein. This is a well established scientific fact whether you’re low carb or high carb.

Aragorn from other posts i read from you, my tendency is to believe you.
Can you maybe offer some reason why many train only once weekly most body parts, i have simply no clue.
Were studies establishing scientifically as fact paid by protein/supplements sellers/makers?
I posted on that subject some weeks back and some other poster mentioned a well established strong man eating way less if my memory serves me right about like me 0.7 gram per body pound.

Man, you know…I really don’t know where to start. There’s so much going on I really couldn’t without writing a novel and to be perfectly honest…well, I don’t really feel like writing that much right now lol. Sounds like a cop out I know, but what you basically just did is ask a question that makes about a million things in my brain go pop! at once.

You can look up Dr. Peter Lemon, who was one of the great names in nutrition research and did studies on protein intake years ago, largely fundamental to our nutrition. And lets be honest, I am not talking about 3 grams per lb of bodyweight here. Peter Lemon suggested between .8-1.4 g per lb of bodyweight if memory serves me, which is almost spot on the typical “1 gram per pound” recommendation most people give to new weight lifters.

The biological reason is as follows: You require protein not just for muscle, but for the creation of almost everything–immune antibodies (protein), T cells, B cells, enzymes for every biological reaction you have (all made of protein), tendons, ligaments, stomach lining, brain cells, everything. So in order to provide excess protein that is available to use for muscle synthesis, you need MORE protein on top of that which is required to maintain your body’s current structures and carry on biological functions. If you do not give the raw building blocks to build with, building will be slow at best, or stagnate and drop at worst.

If you increase the stress on a system, you must increase fuel requirements. Carbs cannot be used as structural building blocks for enzymes because the enzymes are made of proteins.

Ultimately, we need also keep in mind the difference between “required” in the “required for normal daily function and to avoid deficiency” manner of speaking with the “optimal” as in, “optimal to increase performance OVER daily function” manner of speaking. Most studies deal with deficiency because that is clinical–that is where many nutrition syndromes and diseases come from, not to mention the grant money for solving or ameliorating disease is a lot more than for studying athletes :).

What you said in essence explicitly stated that you were laughing at those who take protein supplements. It was a blanket statement and a poor one because, in practical terms, while there may be a few people getting big on low protein intake they are the absolute exception to the general rule that big strong people eat more protein than .6 grams per lb of body weight and certainly a damn sight more than the RDA of 60g. Success leaves clues–if 90% of all great athletes does “x” then it suggests “x” is a trait very very closely tied to success, regardless if a few of the 10% leftover don’t do “x” and are successful as well. Same goes for bodybuilders and power athletes.

However, further and more importantly there are a number of studies that indicate specific KINDS of protein–i.e. the “specialized proteins” you said you make fun of–are more effective at inducing anabolism post workout or are more quickly absorbed into the blood stream, or are better at staving off catabolism, than other kinds of proteins.

And no, these are all peer reviewed studies I am speaking of, not “supplement ad campaigns”.

In addition, there is absolutely ZERO, and I mean ZERO scientific evidence for “they produce lots of residue”… I don’t even know what you are speaking of here, because outside of some pseudo new-age infomercial nonsense there is no term for what you are saying here.

All the best :slight_smile:

Aragorn thanks.
I do not want to argue, i had in mind the ones suggesting 1.5 or even 2 gr. Between 0.7, 0.8 or 1 we are about in the same ballpark. I searched and found the post i had in mind so in case someone is curious i copied it.

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Read this. Dave Tate got up to 290 pounds, eating less than 200 grams of protein ON HIS GOOD DAYS! Depending on your training, your metabolism etc, I don’t think we need that much protein. I have even made decent gains with less than 150 grams of protein, at a BW of about 200 pounds.

But, here’s the problem: If you eat so little protein, this means that you must get all you other calories (which is a fuckload) from carbs and fats. I am pretty sure carbs won’t be only rice and pasta, it will be all kind of unhealthy shit. This is the problem I believe with low protein diets. Not the fact that you won’t gain muscle or strength, but the fact that your health will get all fucked up, like Dave’s. So yeah, as long as you get the necessary calories in, you will gain, but most probably you will damage your health too

@BHappy

I know im chiming in late, but most physiology and exci-sci texts will refer to the magic number as 0.83 g/kg which is very low. But from my understanding this is the RDA (good for 98% of the average population). The issue with this figure is that it was based solely on nitrogen balance (NB = Nitrogen input - Output, if (+): Anabolic, If (-): Catabolic). However this doesn’t really paint a great picture of the whole situation.

True, many athletes CAN build significant amounts of muscle on low amount of protein intake, however most would advocate the better safe than sorry approach. Unless you have pre-existing kidney damage (and even then, that subject is iffy) taking in a LARGE amount of protein doesn’t have many adverse side effects. I would love to read some literature on the “residue” issue if you have any.

Cheers guys!

Aragon has some pretty good advice but it seems the convo jumped to a different topic there.
Meditation is a really under rated practice. Aim for 15 mins. It is honestly unbelievably hard to get someone to still for even 15mins. start there and build up. Just start a google search and begin practicing what you find most comfortable. A lot of them focusing on breathing, for certain reasons, others focus on clearing the mind, some on blank rooms, others on color. But you should find something to focus on in general.

It sounds like you are looking towards healing meditations. Depends on if you want to do chakra healing or other but there are some great guided meditations out there. Hell youtube as a ton of shit on it to get a start. As far as I know and believe it is one of the oldest practices ever used to 1000 reasons. We dont do it anymore because of short attention spans and too much daily bullshit, that is a whole other topic though. Just start. Free you mind son

hips4runnin is right, this got a bit derailed.

There are MANY merits to meditation. Some which can be explained scientifically and some that baffle the science world. Logic would dictate that meditation COULD reduce sypathetic drive and increase parasympathetic drive acutely. Just think about it, if you body has no need to be in a fight or flight sitation (which can be brought on mentally as well as physically) then it should move into a parasympathetic state.

All i know is, give it a shot a couple times a week (or even a couple times a day like trancendental meditation) and you will feel great. Taking a break from the real world for even just a few minutes a day will have a very therapeutic effect.

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Well any energy plus is a plus. I used them all, meditation, taichi, yoga, better nutrition. I will get attacked but i laugh at all these proteins being ingested for better results or at least they hope for. They produce lots of residue added to exercises residue guys need ridiculous recovery time.

Do not believe me. The Mighty Stu just posted that better nutrition = shorter recovery.
Look at yoga exercise/stretch for glands over the kidney that will keep recovery short.
Try it cut 25% from proteins intake. Carbs are not villains they produce less residue = shorter recovery.
Obviously they are not all equals. I talk about clean eating, potatoes, etc… many people live mainly on potatoes and never see a doctor.
Well lucky me online i might survive the attacks.
About the best form, they are all good, find a good teacher, that makes the difference. I was lucky i can assure you he or she is worth gold.[/quote]

You did absolutely nothing to answer my question. And thanks for quoting Stu saying better nutrition means better recovery, I had no clue!

[quote]setto222 wrote:
hips4runnin is right, this got a bit derailed.

There are MANY merits to meditation. Some which can be explained scientifically and some that baffle the science world. Logic would dictate that meditation COULD reduce sypathetic drive and increase parasympathetic drive acutely. Just think about it, if you body has no need to be in a fight or flight sitation (which can be brought on mentally as well as physically) then it should move into a parasympathetic state.

All i know is, give it a shot a couple times a week (or even a couple times a day like trancendental meditation) and you will feel great. Taking a break from the real world for even just a few minutes a day will have a very therapeutic effect. [/quote]

Actually got two good sessions in so far. Only ten minutes before bed each time but it did definitely help me relax my mind and sleep better. And I’ve been hitting PR’s pretty well lately, not saying it’s cause/effect but maybe it’s helping.

You don’t have to sit in place to meditate… simply being aware is enough of all raising emotions, thoughts, and feelings… You can virtually meditate with anything you can do… And of course it works wonders!

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Well any energy plus is a plus. I used them all, meditation, taichi, yoga, better nutrition. I will get attacked but i laugh at all these proteins being ingested for better results or at least they hope for. They produce lots of residue added to exercises residue guys need ridiculous recovery time.

Do not believe me. The Mighty Stu just posted that better nutrition = shorter recovery.
Look at yoga exercise/stretch for glands over the kidney that will keep recovery short.
Try it cut 25% from proteins intake. Carbs are not villains they produce less residue = shorter recovery.
Obviously they are not all equals. I talk about clean eating, potatoes, etc… many people live mainly on potatoes and never see a doctor.
Well lucky me online i might survive the attacks.
About the best form, they are all good, find a good teacher, that makes the difference. I was lucky i can assure you he or she is worth gold.[/quote]

You did absolutely nothing to answer my question. And thanks for quoting Stu saying better nutrition means better recovery, I had no clue![/quote]

I am sorry you feel that way. My original post on this tread was meant to answer your question. Some might waste years thinking they do meditate. I said more or less many ways are helpfull when done properly. If you can do it well good for you.
All the best !

[quote]setto222 wrote:
@BHappy

I know im chiming in late, but most physiology and exci-sci texts will refer to the magic number as 0.83 g/kg which is very low. But from my understanding this is the RDA (good for 98% of the average population). The issue with this figure is that it was based solely on nitrogen balance (NB = Nitrogen input - Output, if (+): Anabolic, If (-): Catabolic). However this doesn’t really paint a great picture of the whole situation.

True, many athletes CAN build significant amounts of muscle on low amount of protein intake, however most would advocate the better safe than sorry approach. Unless you have pre-existing kidney damage (and even then, that subject is iffy) taking in a LARGE amount of protein doesn’t have many adverse side effects. I would love to read some literature on the “residue” issue if you have any.

Cheers guys! [/quote]

Many of what i do is based on many years of reading about different nutritional approaches. 22 years ago i had a mucus situation for 6 months so i asked around for help. 1 person suggested i cut dairies i tought it was crazy. A second gave me the same suggestion, i tought it was a fluke. At the third similar suggestion in about a week i tought i have nothing to loose by trying and it worked. That triggered my search for better/proper nutrition.

To keep things short i am dead and have been dead for over 2 decades by the “agreed by most people knowledge”. I fasted for soo long because i had a small growth on my left pec that if i believed the respected people i am dead.

I got rid of that growth by not believing the norm, so now my tendency is to be selective about who i believe in. I tested too many things/ways on myself to remember it all or list them. You can do what you choose, no problem. By now you should know i do not trust the RDA.

All the best !

I have been doing asanas (yoga posture) every day for more than a year followed by meditation. I am now confident in my ability to not get injured and stay in the game for long. Meditation is good but don’t think it is going to help in the gym. It is not the purpose.