T Nation

Medical Field/Drugs and Death


#48

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmm,
I have had many patients who were extremely obese, on many different medications to control high blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol issues. I would have to say the vast majority of them refuse to change their lifestyle at all and seem to completely ignore how much effort it takes them just to move as a result of the fat they are carrying.

It is great to discuss “prevention”. However, in the real world, the majority of the human population would eat cake, screw, and sleep their way through life even if it was killing them.

I have heard many times, “I’m not giving up my fried chicken and cornbread!!”…way more than I’ve heard. “whew, I sure am glad I stopped smoking, started training 3-4 days a week in a gym and quit eating all of my meals at KFC…where’s the PREVENTION WARD???”[/quote]

Maybe I should with hold their meds Doc so that will teach them, yea have that stroke see how that does you. I bet next time you want to work out and eat right. [/quote]

The conspiracy theorists seem to be comprised of people devoid of understanding basic human nature.

Most of the people walking around on the street want to do what they want to do and damn the consequences…until they get sick…and still damn the consequences so long as they can get away with sneaking a cigarette in the garage after dinner.

The medical profession can’t afford to be focused mostly on “prevention”. That would require a population that actually gave a shit about more than their clothes and their next meal at Mc Donald’s or their new smart phone.


#49

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks


#50

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Of course they weren’t a money grab at first, at the time the “science” seemed to support them, albeit it flawed science. But, nowadays with all that is known about CVD, diet and the latest statin trials.
[/quote]
Flawed “science” like this classic?

We spend millions on paying experienced scientists with medical degrees to go through the studies and guess what? Statins still save lives. Despite the popularity of high fat diets. Why do you think you know better?

There’s a classic thread on a Swedish forum where someone asks “What’s harder: working in a gym or becoming a doctor?”. Thanks for reminding me of it.
It’s pretty funny even with google translate: https://www.flashback.org/t809711[/quote]

statins save lives? do tell, the research clearly shows there is one group of people where there seems to be prolonged life. Men with existing heart problems under the age 65


#51

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

I do believe he is asking what degree you carry that gives you insight into the medical profession beyond what the average patient would see.


#52

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Of course they weren’t a money grab at first, at the time the “science” seemed to support them, albeit it flawed science. But, nowadays with all that is known about CVD, diet and the latest statin trials.
[/quote]
Flawed “science” like this classic?

We spend millions on paying experienced scientists with medical degrees to go through the studies and guess what? Statins still save lives. Despite the popularity of high fat diets. Why do you think you know better?

There’s a classic thread on a Swedish forum where someone asks “What’s harder: working in a gym or becoming a doctor?”. Thanks for reminding me of it.
It’s pretty funny even with google translate: https://www.flashback.org/t809711[/quote]

Perhaps you may want to read up on the works of Uffe Ravnskov, or perhaps Taubes, or Dr. Graveline, Dr. Dwight Lundell

while you will say this isn’t a study, the sources here will provide plenty for you

but hey, Mercola’s a quack right

diabetes is good for the heart right?

why am I even bothering, it’s flabbergasting to me that I would have to speak on this topic to such a degree on a site like this, unreal sheeple.


#53

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

I do believe he is asking what degree you carry that gives you insight into the medical profession beyond what the average patient would see.[/quote]

What does that have to do with this topic? It should be clear by now that doctors and those in the medical profession are not gods. It’s very easy today to read up on this stuff oneself. That’s like em saying you’re no registered dietician what do you know about eating.

Come on guys, this shit ain’t rocket science to figure some of this out, or at least read up on the matter from doctors, if that makes things better.


#54

The only prescription anyone needs: “Foam roll and coconut oil”


#55

But what are we arguing here?

No one is going to change their stance.


#56

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
The only prescription anyone needs: “Foam roll and coconut oil”[/quote]

x2, don’t forget fish oil though and vit d3


#57

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

Great, now what accountability do you have EXCEPT to lose your job?

I can still be brought to court for people I took care of years and years ago. Also when I was a young I worked in a hospital where I covered the nursery so until those kids are in there mid to late 20’s I still could be brought to court.

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

Also I posted a link that was started in GAL as a way for all of us to be accountable for our own self. I posted a picture of myself working out, I have a log in over 35 that I have posted in for years. I am far from perfect but I never claimed to be.

So where you at? Where are your pictures, log. Because by God the way you talk you better fucking look like Tibs and lift like Wendler.


#58

let’s not forget that MODOK who used to post here was rather anti-statins as well. Of course, what does he know, not like he was a bright guy or anything. And not that he didn’t have Dr. in front of his name, which he did.


#59

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

Great, now what accountability do you have EXCEPT to lose your job?

I can still be brought to court for people I took care of years and years ago. Also when I was a young I worked in a hospital where I covered the nursery so until those kids are in there mid to late 20’s I still could be brought to court.

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

Also I posted a link that was started in GAL as a way for all of us to be accountable for our own self. I posted a picture of myself working out, I have a log in over 35 that I have posted in for years. I am far from perfect but I never claimed to be.

So where you at? Where are your pictures, log. Because by God the way you talk you better fucking look like Tibs and lift like Wendler. [/quote]

I have to carry liability insurance.


#60

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

So where you at? Where are your pictures, log. Because by God the way you talk you better fucking look like Tibs and lift like Wendler. [/quote]

wow dude, you’re really stretching. Where have I talked in here or anywhere lately on how to get big and huge? In case you haven’t noticed, that’s not the direction I take with my posts on here. Hell, I stayed off the BB forum for a long time since I had no interest in it.

My goals are different, though I will say I’m back to putting on weight if that makes you happy and have gained 14 lbs in the past 12 weeks. I don’t post my personal shit too much b/c of too many on this site that make stuff personal such as your last statement.


#61

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

So where you at? Where are your pictures, log. Because by God the way you talk you better fucking look like Tibs and lift like Wendler. [/quote]

In internet-land, you can pretty much bet that if someone spends all day on a weight lifting forum but has no pictures up at all, they are either extremely wealthy, an undercover spy, on the run from the law, a celebrity on the downlow…or some guy who doesn’t look like he has “built” much.


#62

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

So where you at? Where are your pictures, log. Because by God the way you talk you better fucking look like Tibs and lift like Wendler. [/quote]

wow dude, you’re really stretching. Where have I talked in here or anywhere lately on how to get big and huge? In case you haven’t noticed, that’s not the direction I take with my posts on here. Hell, I stayed off the BB forum for a long time since I had no interest in it.

My goals are different, though I will say I’m back to putting on weight if that makes you happy and have gained 14 lbs in the past 12 weeks. I don’t post my personal shit too much b/c of too many on this site that make stuff personal such as your last statement.[/quote]

Well you make it personal when you attack my profession and my integrity that I have done for 20 years. Again what you post says a lot about yourself and I am just kind of tired of the slant of your posts. I post in GAL to fuck around between patients, I post in over 35 cause there are some very strong grown ups in there.

Again my point was everything you post reeks of no accountability not only in regards to this thread but also in regards to lifting and life in general.

So I will drop this topic, however next time you post some horse shit like this thread I damn well will attack your position again. Because you have yet to build any credibility.


#63

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
statins save lives? do tell, the research clearly shows there is one group of people where there seems to be prolonged life. Men with existing heart problems under the age 65[/quote]
Where do you get this stuff? You know that single studies, fitness bloggers or your observations from the gym are not enough, right?

Are you really going to argue about that I can’t say save lives? Since we’re all going to die, yes, it’s impossible to save a life even if you take a bullet for someone, you can only prolong it. Did that make you win?

The study I linked to, a very respected study, saw effect in both men and women.

A cochrane review, looking at studies with a total of 34,700 patients, saw a 16% decrease in all cause mortality in people with no history of CVD. The studies they looked at were not enough to recommend treating everyone with statins though. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004816.pub4/abstract

The European Society of Cardiology thinks you should consider statin treatment in hypertensive patients previous CVD, diabetes type 2 or with an estimated 10 year risk of cardiovascular death of 5%. http://www.escardio.org/guidelines-surveys/esc-guidelines/Pages/cvd-prevention.aspx

I’m not spending more time on this but there are at least a billion people who could benefit from statins.


#64

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
let’s not forget that MODOK who used to post here was rather anti-statins as well. Of course, what does he know, not like he was a bright guy or anything. And not that he didn’t have Dr. in front of his name, which he did.[/quote]
Statins are not for everyone. Nor are they part of a conspiracy. They just have effects and side effects, much like anything.


#65

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

I do believe he is asking what degree you carry that gives you insight into the medical profession beyond what the average patient would see.[/quote]

What does that have to do with this topic?

It should be clear by now that doctors and those in the medical profession are not gods.

It’s very easy today to read up on this stuff oneself. [/quote]

So reading an opinion makes you as knowledgeable as a medical doctor?

LOL WUT?


#66

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

I do believe he is asking what degree you carry that gives you insight into the medical profession beyond what the average patient would see.[/quote]

What does that have to do with this topic? It should be clear by now that doctors and those in the medical profession are not gods. It’s very easy today to read up on this stuff oneself. That’s like em saying you’re no registered dietician what do you know about eating.

Come on guys, this shit ain’t rocket science to figure some of this out, or at least read up on the matter from doctors, if that makes things better.[/quote]

No one is saying Dr’s are Gods or should not be held accountable that is why we have the litigation that we have today.

Again do you understand how the medical model works or how medicine works. Dr’s across America just dont jump on every study and change their practice every time one comes out. We are taking care of peoples lives not doing their fucking laundry. When you have accountability you tend to make wiser choices.


#67

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmm,
I have had many patients who were extremely obese, on many different medications to control high blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol issues. I would have to say the vast majority of them refuse to change their lifestyle at all and seem to completely ignore how much effort it takes them just to move as a result of the fat they are carrying.

It is great to discuss “prevention”. However, in the real world, the majority of the human population would eat cake, screw, and sleep their way through life even if it was killing them.

I have heard many times, “I’m not giving up my fried chicken and cornbread!!”…way more than I’ve heard. “whew, I sure am glad I stopped smoking, started training 3-4 days a week in a gym and quit eating all of my meals at KFC…where’s the PREVENTION WARD???”[/quote]

great post.

i was wondering when real health care professionals were going to chime in this thread(x, derek, myself), sad that none of us were invited.

here is a stat for you: if you take more than 6 prescripion medications, the chance of adverse reactions to at least one of them interacting with each other is almost 100%. do you know how many FAT, 60-80 year olds who are so obese they cannot even toilet themselves without help that are on DOZENS of medications.

yet everytime they come into the ED not feeling well, they blame it on their healthcare provider or not having enough or the “right” medications.

we have figured out how to prolong life in this society, but not prolong quality of life. we are living longer, but we are living longer sicker and miserable.