T Nation

Medical Field/Drugs and Death


#38

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
This seems appropriate here. lol[/quote]

Some where in Florida…Gods waiting room.


#39

#40

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Cimmerian wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]Cimmerian wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:
This leads to a new problem: The pharmaceutical companies that actually try to develop new drugs, instead of being greedy copy cats like many, don’t get paid. Their research budget shrinks and we see less new drugs. And the few new drugs they do invent are seldom used because they’re so expensive. So why would they research a new drug in the future?[/quote]

Getting away from the topic here, but don’t many companies get around this by simply making their own generics? That allows them to recoup the costs of research without having to charge a brand premium. From that point it is really the responsibility of the pharmacist to properly explain to the patient what they are paying for.
[/quote]
Being the 15th company selling omeprazol doesn’t pay anywhere near as well as being the only one who can sell the drug you put billions of dollars into making.[/quote]

Fair point. I came across this snippet in WP that puts things in a perspective that many likely haven’t thought about. I know I hadn’t.

“For instance, only one out of every ten thousand discovered compounds actually becomes an approved drug for sale. Much expense is incurred in the early phases of development of compounds that will not become approved drugs.[5] In addition, it takes about 7 to 10 years and only 3 out of every 20 approved drugs bring in sufficient revenue to cover their developmental costs, and only 1 out of every 3 approved drugs generates enough money to cover the development costs of previous failures. This means that for a drug company to survive, it needs to discover a blockbuster (billion-dollar drug) every few years.[5]”

While I hate your reference source (wiki) this is a very true statement, everyone wants the cure for cancer but nobody wants to pay to get it.

Statins were not a money grab, they were developed due to the science and technology that is/was available. Very easy to arm chair QB when YOU are not the one with your license on the line. If your patient has a MI or Stroke and you knew they had elevated LDL and didnt treat it then you get sued for malpractice plain and simple. Good luck trying to convince a jury that [i]Well we spoke of eating grass fed llama and rare African bird eggs with yak milk to balance out his cholesterol.[i] How is it my fault that the patient didnt follow my directions. [/quote]

Of course they weren’t a money grab at first, at the time the “science” seemed to support them, albeit it flawed science. But, nowadays with all that is known about CVD, diet and the latest statin trials.

I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.


#41

Yes there is new research that has still not made it to some areas of the country. HOWEVER my Grandfather was put on CoQ10 by his cardiologist and he has always exercised and watched his diet and he still had a MI at 72 and got a bypass. However he is still on statins, fish oil etc. Cause again read above a DR/Provider will lose serious money for NOT treating someone with CVD appropriately which includes statins, Beta blockers, ASA etc.

You again are making diagnosis from your laptop, reading conspiracy theory news on the internet. You do not work in a hospital, family practice, surgery center, you do not work in the medical field. You do not have a state license or spent over a decade in school learning about the human body. The medical field is always learning and technology is always improving that is why research still continues.

We get it, you are a believer, you have drank the Kool Aid, everything is about diet and exercise. The medical community is in bed with the pharmacy companies to just pump out the most drugs and make the most money possible at the expense of the populace. If only everyone in America ate grass fed beef, milk straight from the cow and free range chicken eggs we would eradicate heart disease and obesity.

But in reality you come off as some rich kid snob who has his head in the clouds and no real clue how the real world works. You are like some religious nut that nobody can stand to be around cause all they talk about is religion. Your message gets lost in your fever of bullshit that you are not effective in any way other than people talking about you.

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.


#42

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55


#43

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool?


#44

Hmmm,
I have had many patients who were extremely obese, on many different medications to control high blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol issues. I would have to say the vast majority of them refuse to change their lifestyle at all and seem to completely ignore how much effort it takes them just to move as a result of the fat they are carrying.

It is great to discuss “prevention”. However, in the real world, the majority of the human population would eat cake, screw, and sleep their way through life even if it was killing them.

I have heard many times, “I’m not giving up my fried chicken and cornbread!!”…way more than I’ve heard. “whew, I sure am glad I stopped smoking, started training 3-4 days a week in a gym and quit eating all of my meals at KFC…where’s the PREVENTION WARD???”


#45

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Yes there is new research that has still not made it to some areas of the country. HOWEVER my Grandfather was put on CoQ10 by his cardiologist and he has always exercised and watched his diet and he still had a MI at 72 and got a bypass. However he is still on statins, fish oil etc. Cause again read above a DR/Provider will lose serious money for NOT treating someone with CVD appropriately which includes statins, Beta blockers, ASA etc.

You again are making diagnosis from your laptop, reading conspiracy theory news on the internet. You do not work in a hospital, family practice, surgery center, you do not work in the medical field. You do not have a state license or spent over a decade in school learning about the human body. The medical field is always learning and technology is always improving that is why research still continues.

We get it, you are a believer, you have drank the Kool Aid, everything is about diet and exercise. The medical community is in bed with the pharmacy companies to just pump out the most drugs and make the most money possible at the expense of the populace. If only everyone in America ate grass fed beef, milk straight from the cow and free range chicken eggs we would eradicate heart disease and obesity.

But in reality you come off as some rich kid snob who has his head in the clouds and no real clue how the real world works. You are like some religious nut that nobody can stand to be around cause all they talk about is religion. Your message gets lost in your fever of bullshit that you are not effective in any way other than people talking about you.

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]
Extremely good post.


#46

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmm,
I have had many patients who were extremely obese, on many different medications to control high blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol issues. I would have to say the vast majority of them refuse to change their lifestyle at all and seem to completely ignore how much effort it takes them just to move as a result of the fat they are carrying.

It is great to discuss “prevention”. However, in the real world, the majority of the human population would eat cake, screw, and sleep their way through life even if it was killing them.

I have heard many times, “I’m not giving up my fried chicken and cornbread!!”…way more than I’ve heard. “whew, I sure am glad I stopped smoking, started training 3-4 days a week in a gym and quit eating all of my meals at KFC…where’s the PREVENTION WARD???”[/quote]

Maybe I should with hold their meds Doc so that will teach them, yea have that stroke see how that does you. I bet next time you want to work out and eat right.


#47

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Of course they weren’t a money grab at first, at the time the “science” seemed to support them, albeit it flawed science. But, nowadays with all that is known about CVD, diet and the latest statin trials.
[/quote]
Flawed “science” like this classic?

We spend millions on paying experienced scientists with medical degrees to go through the studies and guess what? Statins still save lives. Despite the popularity of high fat diets. Why do you think you know better?

There’s a classic thread on a Swedish forum where someone asks “What’s harder: working in a gym or becoming a doctor?”. Thanks for reminding me of it.
It’s pretty funny even with google translate: https://www.flashback.org/t809711


#48

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmm,
I have had many patients who were extremely obese, on many different medications to control high blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol issues. I would have to say the vast majority of them refuse to change their lifestyle at all and seem to completely ignore how much effort it takes them just to move as a result of the fat they are carrying.

It is great to discuss “prevention”. However, in the real world, the majority of the human population would eat cake, screw, and sleep their way through life even if it was killing them.

I have heard many times, “I’m not giving up my fried chicken and cornbread!!”…way more than I’ve heard. “whew, I sure am glad I stopped smoking, started training 3-4 days a week in a gym and quit eating all of my meals at KFC…where’s the PREVENTION WARD???”[/quote]

Maybe I should with hold their meds Doc so that will teach them, yea have that stroke see how that does you. I bet next time you want to work out and eat right. [/quote]

The conspiracy theorists seem to be comprised of people devoid of understanding basic human nature.

Most of the people walking around on the street want to do what they want to do and damn the consequences…until they get sick…and still damn the consequences so long as they can get away with sneaking a cigarette in the garage after dinner.

The medical profession can’t afford to be focused mostly on “prevention”. That would require a population that actually gave a shit about more than their clothes and their next meal at Mc Donald’s or their new smart phone.


#49

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks


#50

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Of course they weren’t a money grab at first, at the time the “science” seemed to support them, albeit it flawed science. But, nowadays with all that is known about CVD, diet and the latest statin trials.
[/quote]
Flawed “science” like this classic?

We spend millions on paying experienced scientists with medical degrees to go through the studies and guess what? Statins still save lives. Despite the popularity of high fat diets. Why do you think you know better?

There’s a classic thread on a Swedish forum where someone asks “What’s harder: working in a gym or becoming a doctor?”. Thanks for reminding me of it.
It’s pretty funny even with google translate: https://www.flashback.org/t809711[/quote]

statins save lives? do tell, the research clearly shows there is one group of people where there seems to be prolonged life. Men with existing heart problems under the age 65


#51

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

I do believe he is asking what degree you carry that gives you insight into the medical profession beyond what the average patient would see.


#52

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Of course they weren’t a money grab at first, at the time the “science” seemed to support them, albeit it flawed science. But, nowadays with all that is known about CVD, diet and the latest statin trials.
[/quote]
Flawed “science” like this classic?

We spend millions on paying experienced scientists with medical degrees to go through the studies and guess what? Statins still save lives. Despite the popularity of high fat diets. Why do you think you know better?

There’s a classic thread on a Swedish forum where someone asks “What’s harder: working in a gym or becoming a doctor?”. Thanks for reminding me of it.
It’s pretty funny even with google translate: https://www.flashback.org/t809711[/quote]

Perhaps you may want to read up on the works of Uffe Ravnskov, or perhaps Taubes, or Dr. Graveline, Dr. Dwight Lundell

while you will say this isn’t a study, the sources here will provide plenty for you

but hey, Mercola’s a quack right

diabetes is good for the heart right?

why am I even bothering, it’s flabbergasting to me that I would have to speak on this topic to such a degree on a site like this, unreal sheeple.


#53

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

I do believe he is asking what degree you carry that gives you insight into the medical profession beyond what the average patient would see.[/quote]

What does that have to do with this topic? It should be clear by now that doctors and those in the medical profession are not gods. It’s very easy today to read up on this stuff oneself. That’s like em saying you’re no registered dietician what do you know about eating.

Come on guys, this shit ain’t rocket science to figure some of this out, or at least read up on the matter from doctors, if that makes things better.


#54

The only prescription anyone needs: “Foam roll and coconut oil”


#55

But what are we arguing here?

No one is going to change their stance.


#56

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
The only prescription anyone needs: “Foam roll and coconut oil”[/quote]

x2, don’t forget fish oil though and vit d3


#57

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Now where did you get this information? “I mean WTF, and even worse even when docs do prescribe them vast majority of the time, there’s no mention of the need to supplement with CoQ10, absurd.” HOW do you know that this is not being suggested? How do you know that maybe people are NOT buying it cause they cant afford to buy it. You again make assumptions to try to prove a point.[/quote]

Family members, and also my job :wink: I deal a lot with those that are over the age 55
[/quote]

Your job as a trainer?

Again what degree do you have?

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

So your whole defense is the small % of people you see in your area as your data pool? [/quote]

I actually do training PT now, work full-time at a senior center, so yeah, I deal with them daily thanks
[/quote]

Great, now what accountability do you have EXCEPT to lose your job?

I can still be brought to court for people I took care of years and years ago. Also when I was a young I worked in a hospital where I covered the nursery so until those kids are in there mid to late 20’s I still could be brought to court.

Do you have to carry malpractice insurance?

Also I posted a link that was started in GAL as a way for all of us to be accountable for our own self. I posted a picture of myself working out, I have a log in over 35 that I have posted in for years. I am far from perfect but I never claimed to be.

So where you at? Where are your pictures, log. Because by God the way you talk you better fucking look like Tibs and lift like Wendler.