Med Advice for on Cycle Blood Work

Pharma / TRT
1

Would appreciate advice on how to manage my hormone levels during cycle. I got pre-cycle bloodwork and got it updated again recently. My main concern at this point is high prolactin. So, I’m considering ordering some cabergoline and would value input on that or any other feedback on how to proceed as well.

I’m 31 and this cycle is almost identical to one that worked great for me 10 years ago except that I got gyno and ended up having surgery afterwards on one side. I haven’t used AAS in between. My cycle is 500 mg/week of test e and 500 mg/week of eq in a mix. I did 1000 mg to frontload for the first dose. I’m doing 15 weeks total. During the first 25 days, I’m also doing 20 mg of superdrol daily.

I did bloodwork before the cycle and my estrogen was already a little high. I also had low WBC and some other blood count numbers were borderline almost-anemic. I’m vegetarian. So, I decided to add an iron supplement to help with that. The low WBC could possibly be due to my mild psoriasis.

I started the cycle out without adding any other meds. My plan was to watch bloodwork and add in aromasin strategically, but I was seeing noticeable gyno symptoms a little over a week in before I got a chance to get back for my first on cycle bloodwork. I decided to do 25 mg of aromasin and 20 mg of nolva ED to combat that. About 2 days into that, my gyno is completely better. It’s actually better than the way it was before I started the cycle.

Additionally, I started having ED issues about a week into the cycle which is totally abnormal. So, I got some sildenafil to use p.r.n. which fixed that.

I got bloodwork the third day after starting the aromasin. The results came in after about a week, and my estrogen is now low and prolactin is high. After seeing that, I skipped a day of aromasin and am intending to try that at 25 mg EOD for now and get bloodwork again soon. I’m not really feeling particularly bad from the low estrogen or high prolactin, but my energy is down from what it was earlier in the cycle when it was unusually good.

I’m considering adding cabergoline now at .5 mg EOD to try to bring the prolactin in check to see if that helps with libido and energy. I’ve got enough aromasin and nolva to last me a while, but will need more if I have to keep up these doses throughout and into PCT. So, I’ve got a bunch more of that on the way. I also ordered a little letro before knowing if the gyno issue was solved and proviron as well in case it seems like that could be a good idea to try, and I got enough turinabol to possibly add that in at 40mg/day for 5 weeks at the end of the cycle.

I’d appreciate advice on the meds to manage the rest of the cycle as well as how I should try to do PCT. I got really bad bacne during my 40/40/20/20 nolva PCT 10 years ago.

Thanks for any help. Bloodwork below.

Pre-cycle
CBC With Differential/Platelet

  • WBC 3.2 LOW 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL 01
  • RBC 4.66 NORMAL 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL 01
  • Hemoglobin 13.4 NORMAL 13.0-17.7 g/dL 01
  • Hematocrit 41.4 NORMAL 37.5-51.0 % 01
  • MCV 89 NORMAL 79-97 fL 01
  • MCH 28.8 NORMAL 26.6-33.0 pg 01
  • MCHC 32.4 NORMAL 31.5-35.7 g/dL 01
  • RDW 13.8 NORMAL 12.3-15.4 % 01
  • Platelets 208 NORMAL 150-450 x10E3/uL 01
  • Neutrophils 45 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Lymphs 38 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Monocytes 15 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Eos 1 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Basos 1 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Neutrophils (Absolute) 1.5 NORMAL 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL 01
  • Lymphs (Absolute) 1.2 NORMAL 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL 01
  • Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 NORMAL 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL 01
  • Eos (Absolute) 0.0 NORMAL 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL 01
  • Baso (Absolute) 0.0 NORMAL 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL 01
  • Immature Granulocytes 0 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 NORMAL 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL 01
    Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
  • Glucose 82 NORMAL 65-99 mg/dL 01
  • BUN 13 NORMAL 6-20 mg/dL 01
  • Creatinine 1.16 NORMAL 0.76-1.27 mg/dL 01
  • eGFR If NonAfricn Am 83 NORMAL >59 mL/min/1.73 01
  • eGFR If Africn Am 96 NORMAL >59 mL/min/1.73 01
  • BUN/Creatinine Ratio 11 NORMAL 9-20 01
  • Sodium 138 NORMAL 134-144 mmol/L 01
  • Potassium 4.7 NORMAL 3.5-5.2 mmol/L 01
  • Chloride 99 NORMAL 96-106 mmol/L 01
  • Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 NORMAL 20-29 mmol/L 01
  • Calcium 9.4 NORMAL 8.7-10.2 mg/dL 01
  • Protein, Total 6.6 NORMAL 6.0-8.5 g/dL 01
  • Albumin 4.4 NORMAL 3.5-5.5 g/dL 01
  • Globulin, Total 2.2 NORMAL 1.5-4.5 g/dL 01
  • A/G Ratio 2.0 NORMAL 1.2-2.2 01
  • Bilirubin, Total 0.3 NORMAL 0.0-1.2 mg/dL 01
  • Alkaline Phosphatase 52 NORMAL 39-117 IU/L 01
  • AST (SGOT) 18 NORMAL 0-40 IU/L 01
  • ALT (SGPT) 14 NORMAL 0-44 IU/L 01
    Lipid Panel
  • Cholesterol, Total 128 NORMAL 100-199 mg/dL 01
  • Triglycerides 65 NORMAL 0-149 mg/dL 01
  • HDL Cholesterol 44 NORMAL >39 mg/dL 01
  • VLDL Cholesterol Cal 13 NORMAL 5-40 mg/dL 01
  • LDL Cholesterol Calc 71 NORMAL 0-99 mg/dL 01
    Thyroid Panel With TSH
  • TSH 1.800 NORMAL 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL 01
  • Thyroxine (T4) 6.5 NORMAL 4.5-12.0 ug/dL 01
  • T3 Uptake 29 NORMAL 24-39 % 01
  • Free Thyroxine Index 1.9 NORMAL 1.2-4.9 01
    Testosterone, Free/Tot Equilib
  • Testosterone, Serum 848 NORMAL 264-916 ng/dL 01
  • Testosterone,Free 15.09 NORMAL 5.00-21.00 ng/dL 02
  • % Free Testosterone 1.78 NORMAL 1.50-4.20 % 02
    Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum
  • Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.4 NORMAL 0.0-4.0 ng/mL 01
    IGF-1
  • Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 163 NORMAL 88-246 ng/mL 02
    Estradiol, Sensitive
  • Estradiol, Sensitive 35.0 NORMAL 8.0-35.0 pg/mL 02

3 weeks in (3 days after starting aromasin/nolva)
CBC With Differential/Platelet

  • WBC 5.6 NORMAL 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL 01
  • RBC 4.62 NORMAL 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL 01
  • Hemoglobin 13.3 NORMAL 13.0-17.7 g/dL 01
  • Hematocrit 41.5 NORMAL 37.5-51.0 % 01
  • MCV 90 NORMAL 79-97 fL 01
  • MCH 28.8 NORMAL 26.6-33.0 pg 01
  • MCHC 32.0 NORMAL 31.5-35.7 g/dL 01
  • RDW 13.9 NORMAL 12.3-15.4 % 01
  • Platelets 345 NORMAL 150-450 x10E3/uL 01
  • Neutrophils 48 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Lymphs 40 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Monocytes 10 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Eos 1 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Basos 1 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.7 NORMAL 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL 01
  • Lymphs (Absolute) 2.3 NORMAL 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL 01
  • Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 NORMAL 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL 01
  • Eos (Absolute) 0.1 NORMAL 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL 01
  • Baso (Absolute) 0.0 NORMAL 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL 01
  • Immature Granulocytes 0 NORMAL Not Estab. % 01
  • Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 NORMAL 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL 01
    Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
  • Glucose 72 NORMAL 65-99 mg/dL 01
  • BUN 8 NORMAL 6-20 mg/dL 01
  • Creatinine 1.48 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL 01
  • eGFR If NonAfricn Am 62 NORMAL >59 mL/min/1.73 01
  • eGFR If Africn Am 72 NORMAL >59 mL/min/1.73 01
  • BUN/Creatinine Ratio 5 LOW 9-20 01
  • Sodium 140 NORMAL 134-144 mmol/L 01
  • Potassium 4.7 NORMAL 3.5-5.2 mmol/L 01
  • Chloride 102 NORMAL 96-106 mmol/L 01
  • Carbon Dioxide, Total 22 NORMAL 20-29 mmol/L 01
  • Calcium 8.7 NORMAL 8.7-10.2 mg/dL 01
  • Protein, Total 6.9 NORMAL 6.0-8.5 g/dL 01
  • Albumin 4.2 NORMAL 3.5-5.5 g/dL 01
  • Globulin, Total 2.7 NORMAL 1.5-4.5 g/dL 01
  • A/G Ratio 1.6 NORMAL 1.2-2.2 01
  • Bilirubin, Total 0.6 NORMAL 0.0-1.2 mg/dL 01
  • Alkaline Phosphatase 52 NORMAL 39-117 IU/L 01
  • AST (SGOT) 33 NORMAL 0-40 IU/L 01
  • ALT (SGPT) 34 NORMAL 0-44 IU/L 01
    Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
  • LH 0.4 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 01
    FSH, Serum
  • FSH 0.7 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL 01
    Prolactin
  • Prolactin 28.5 HIGH 4.0-15.2 ng/mL 01
    Testosterone, Total, LC/MS
  • Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 3009 HIGH ng/dL 02
    Estradiol, Sensitive
  • Estradiol, Sensitive 5.7 LOW 8.0-35.0 pg/mL 03
2

You are a clusterfuck waiting to implode. Sounds like that first cycle must have been amazing resulting in surgery. I think we have different definitions of amazing.

How is your libido and erections? You are tanking the fuck out of your E2 with all that AI and nolva. 10 yrs ago ? You thought it was brilliant idea to come back and bang a gram a week?

Why couldnt you start out slow knowing you already had gyno 10 yrs ago and some development recently? Why couldnt you keep it simple? 500mgs of Test a week split into 2 shots every 3.5 days? Then add in some Nolva when needed.

You are the guys that come back in here with pictures asking if that is gyno or creating more threads about “Help, my dick wont work”.

3 Likes
3

Dude, slow down with throwing more drugs at the problem.

Without even reading your labs, I’m assuming you tanked your estrogen, way overdid it with Aromasin and Nolva, hence your libido and energy levels are hurting. Now you want to add more drugs to combat that.

Your response to every issue has been to throw another drug at it. You’re complicating things and adding fuel to the fire.

I’m not expert with any of what you’re taking, but gyno doesn’t typically show up week 1. Sounds like maybe you got a bit paranoid, jumped the gun, crashed your Estrogen, ran too much nolva, and your body hasn’t had the ability to adjust to the newly added compounds.

Other guys here will probably have better advice how to proceed, but less is more IMO. You’ve got no clue what’s causing what side effects at this point.

As for the Nolva PCT, I break out horribly. Think it’s partly from the hormonal changes while coming off, but bad acne for 8-12 weeks has been my norm.

4

It’s just 500mg/week. Just 1g preload week 1. I did the same thing last time.

Yea, I definitely did get the gyno issues like 10 days in, and it got way better real quick with the drugs. I know that aromasin dose was heavy, but I wanted to stop the gyno fast and figured I could taper it off with labs to watch. It worked out pretty well I thought.

The libido issues aren’t that bad, but definitely a little annoying. I heard superdrol can cause prolactin issues which can affect libido.

Thanks for the cautions and any other advice.

5

Doesn’t look like you had your prolactin tested in prelabs unless I’m not seeing it. No way to tell how much higher it is.

This is the very reason Test only cycles are recommended and then adding new drugs one at a time. You’ve got no clue if your prolactin was high pre cycle if it wasn’t tested, and no clue what’s causing it to be high if it is higher than baseline.

You’re also taking 1g combined Test & EQ per week. Did you front load 1g of Test AND 1g of EQ week one?

What is your height, weight, bf%?

You had excellent test levels before running this cycle, might be why your e2 was at the upper range as well. Hope you’re able to recover back to those pre cycle numbers!

6

So you’re taking EQ, which is known to lower e2, and a ton of aromasin, which is specifically for lowering e2. And—shockingly—you smashed e2.

Try P5P for prolactin first rather than moving right to the caber. It works well and has a significantly safer side effect profile.

7

Your doses on everything are way off. Along with the combination of drugs leads me to believe you have very little understanding of the drugs your using which will lead to disaster.

Aromasin dose is way too high

Aromasin is unnecessary for gyno if your taking nolva.

Your proposed caber dose is ridiculous that should be x2 a week not EOD. But as iron mentioned try p5p first.

So you repeat what you did on a previous cycle that ultimately had a bad ending? Your self proclaimed “gyno prone” why would you front load anything?

All the guys above me have given you solid advice I’m not really shedding any new light here just hoping to further hammer home how irresponsible your actions are.

1 Like
8

Before you take caber, try a combination of DIIM, aged garlic and turmeric with biopirine. I know it sounds crazy, but 2 times a day did wonders for me. I ordered 2 bottle of caber and havent had to break the seal. That stuff can be risky

Jake

9

Thanks a lot for more advice all.

Yea, I wish I had prolactin tested pre-cycle. Maybe it was high before. I don’t know how much to worry about it now. I still feel pretty good overall despite that and the low e2. I’ll try the other suggested solutions for addressing the prolactin first before adding caber. It sounds like that is worth trying to avoid if possible, and maybe it’ll drop off anyway when I finish the superdrol.

The aromasin dose I went with was based on some posts on here where a guy had found some studies to support that 25mg/day dosage being effective. I know that was heavy, but I figured my e2 had to be really high before I added anything to address it. I hadn’t heard eq could lower that, but e2 was high pre-cycle and I had those gyno issues showing up strong quickly. I didn’t want to wait for a chance to do labs or start with a conservative treatment to address that. It’s hard to regret it now when the gyno did get knocked out hard and fast, and I still do feel good overall. I’ll keep backing off the aromasin now though along with watching e2 in bloodwork. I’m reticent to drop the nolva at all though since it seems like that is most likely to be what’s going to keep the gyno from coming back.

I agree I’m not being the most conservative with this cycle, but I don’t intend to keep doing more cycles regularly and I wanted this one to be effective. Obviously, taking AAS is debatably risky/irresponsible in any case, and the question to me is how tight are you going to limit and manage that risk. I’m willing to accept that I am incurring some additional risk here over a straight test cycle. Also, like I said, this is almost the same as when I was younger. So, I knew I mainly was just going to have to keep a close eye on the gyno this time since I did feel great in other ways last time.

Height is 6’0. I had cut my weight from ~190 to ~175 before I started the cycle. Not sure what my bf% was, but it seemed low for me. I’m up to 195 now at 4 weeks in at probably similar bf %. When I did this cycle 10 years ago, it took me from ~195 to ~235.

I’d still appreciate more recommendations on how to handle the dosing when I get to the end of the pinning. If I’m still on some lower dosage of aromasin plus the 20mg ED of nolva then, should I just ride that through PCT? Or up the nolva to 40 for the 3rd and 4th week after last pin and dropping off with 20 for 5th and 6th? When to drop the aromasin? Any other thoughts?

10

If you have no intentions of competing in any form, or doing any follow up cycles, Can you please tell me the point of all this risk?

The reward is not there for you especially with the reckless approach. All gains will be lost and you could still be stuck with a nice set of man tits.

1 Like
11

Curious to know truthfully how much of that 40lbs did you keep 6-12 months after PCT was done? That’s a hell of a gain regardless, but certainly doesn’t seem worth the risk to try and knock everything out on one cycle. If it works out, great, but most guys say they’re going to run one and then realistically run many more.

12

The gains from the last time did stay for awhile. I stayed at 230-ish for at least a year after last time while I was still in the gym a lot and it stayed as a big difference for me for a while. I ended up losing a lot by not lifting as much with the one startup job I had, but it’s still not hard for me to get some decent gains back real quickly now without much time. So, I’m pretty sure a lot of that growth is still there in some form.

Hard to say I won’t change my mind about more cycles later, but that’s not my plan. I think I can probably stay in a good spot for a while after this.

Dunno what you mean about the point of it. Life feels better when you’re in really good shape.

13

Hi @donkekong, I’m not here to bust your balls like the others. You got bloods that’s a plus. That tells me you are trying to do this the right way.
I’m not sure who told you to front-load but you should stop listening to that guy he doesn’t know what he is talking about. You need to learn about your T types half life and how long it take to reach a steady state.
I don’t think you ever had real gyno. I think you just bloated with water from high E2. If you got real gyno which is very hard to get( over range E2 and prolactin for a year or more) it takes surgery to remove it.

ED is E2. My dick quits working if my E2 goes over 40. When I cycle I let me E2 get up to as high as 125 but I warn my wife and she is OK with my cycles and I always make it up to her when I have my lvls back in check.

If you take a low dose of Nolva during your cycle you will not get gyno.
((( It does not reduce your E2 level)))
If you want to keep you dick hard during a cycle you will need an AI. No one can guess the dose. YOU have to experiment to see what it takes to keep your E2 in check.
There is a fad going around this forum that high E2 is OK. That is bullshit. Best of luck to you I hope my post helped.

14

Thanks @hrdlvn! I appreciate the positivity.

The front-load sounds like a good concept initially, but I should’ve done more research before deciding on that.

Yea, maybe I did panic on the gyno since I had some history with it. I’ll keep an eye on the E2 now going forward to balance the AI. Definitely want to be able to fully enjoy the cycle itself.