T Nation

Mechanism of Methasterone Gyno


#1

I am aware that methasterone (superdrol, SD, M-drol, beastdrol) use is not popular around here, but I'm looking for educated opinions and figured this was one of the best forums to get them.

SD does not aromatize or cause any E related side effects like A-bombs do. But I have read that SD can sometimes cause delayed gyno. The problem is that there are so many different theories on what mechanism is responsible.

The theories I have read about are:

(1) SD causes E rebound. But I do not understand why SD would and other non-aromatizable AAS wouldn't.

(2) SD binds very strongly to SHBG, thereby increasing free E levels

(3) SD causes the adrenals to produce aromatizable hormones (never heard of anything like this before?)

(4) SD needs to attatch to prolactin to enter cells and resultantly causes increased prolactin productin that lasts long after the cycle is over

(5) SD has very low androgenic affect which results in a lower androgen:oestrogen ratio (but again, why would sd cause this but low androgenic aas do not?)

(6) SD is an agonist of the progesterone receptor

Thanks for any constructive feedback. I think if the mechanism was better understood we would be able to prevent the gyno a lot more effectively, and I would also lke to know just as a matter of interest.


#2

[quote]fanof wrote:
I am aware that methasterone (superdrol, SD, M-drol, beastdrol) use is not popular around here, but I’m looking for educated opinions and figured this was one of the best forums to get them.

SD does not aromatize or cause any E related side effects like A-bombs do. But I have read that SD can sometimes cause delayed gyno. The problem is that there are so many different theories on what mechanism is responsible.

The theories I have read about are:

(1) SD causes E rebound. But I do not understand why SD would and other non-aromatizable AAS wouldn’t.

(2) SD binds very strongly to SHBG, thereby increasing free E levels

(3) SD causes the adrenals to produce aromatizable hormones (never heard of anything like this before?)

(4) SD needs to attatch to prolactin to enter cells and resultantly causes increased prolactin productin that lasts long after the cycle is over

(5) SD has very low androgenic affect which results in a lower androgen:oestrogen ratio (but again, why would sd cause this but low androgenic aas do not?)

(6) SD is an agonist of the progesterone receptor

Thanks for any constructive feedback. I think if the mechanism was better understood we would be able to prevent the gyno a lot more effectively, and I would also lke to know just as a matter of interest.
[/quote]
(7) Some people say so online, it gets repeated and soon becomes “fact”

just a guess as i don’t know, but there’s an awful lot of stuff circulating out there that has no source other than what was said on some forum, so think skeptically


#3

All steroids have an effect on steroid metabolism. Designer steroids and steroids with several structural modifications especially have a tendency to affect enzymes related to steroid metabolism (3beta HSD, p450, etc.) Also, just because a synthetic steroid is “DHT based” does not mean that it cannot metabolize into an estrogen either through aromatase or some other, lesser known pathway. So, side effects could be from excess cortisol, progesterone, or the designer steroid could be metabolizing into an estrogen (even if its “DHT based”). There is no way of knowing why someone experiences a certain side effect.


#4

[quote]anime wrote:
All steroids have an effect on steroid metabolism. Designer steroids and steroids with several structural modifications especially have a tendency to affect enzymes related to steroid metabolism (3beta HSD, p450, etc.) Also, just because a synthetic steroid is “DHT based” does not mean that it cannot metabolize into an estrogen either through aromatase or some other, lesser known pathway. So, side effects could be from excess cortisol, progesterone, or the designer steroid could be metabolizing into an estrogen (even if its “DHT based”). There is no way of knowing why someone experiences a certain side effect.[/quote]

Let’s see if I understand this. You speculate that SD might disable enzymes that are responsible for metabolizing ‘gyno causing’ hormone(s), resulting in a buld up??

Thanks, that was a very informative reply


#5

Most likely reasons:

  1. People stack it with other prohormones that are progestin based or can cause gyno and fail to mention that fact.

  2. People do not use a PCT. The “estrogen rebound” from your system restarting with very low levels of DHT and unstable blood concentrations is very real.

  3. ANY sufficiently strong androgen can cause prolactin elevation. Prolactin gyno is very real. Even test can elevate prolactin.

  4. It could very well have direct affinity on receptors you do not wish it to. ^^^^ see above. As well as elevating prolactin via secondary routes.

  5. People use DHT inhibitors at high doses to “protect” their prostates from the compound. Lowering DHT massively up-regulates the effects of estrogen in the body and DHT inhibitors alone can easily cause gyno, even simple saw palmetto supplements dosed high enough can have detrimental effects, they are the basis of modern pharmaceutical drugs after all.

Smart money is always going to be on USER ERROR. Poor PCT, stacking with risky PH’s, simple stupidity, etc.


#6

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Most likely reasons:

  1. People stack it with other prohormones that are progestin based or can cause gyno and fail to mention that fact.

  2. People do not use a PCT. The “estrogen rebound” from your system restarting with very low levels of DHT and unstable blood concentrations is very real.

  3. ANY sufficiently strong androgen can cause prolactin elevation. Prolactin gyno is very real. Even test can elevate prolactin.

  4. It could very well have direct affinity on receptors you do not wish it to. ^^^^ see above. As well as elevating prolactin via secondary routes.

  5. People use DHT inhibitors at high doses to “protect” their prostates from the compound. Lowering DHT massively up-regulates the effects of estrogen in the body and DHT inhibitors alone can easily cause gyno, even simple saw palmetto supplements dosed high enough can have detrimental effects, they are the basis of modern pharmaceutical drugs after all.

Smart money is always going to be on USER ERROR. Poor PCT, stacking with risky PH’s, simple stupidity, etc.
[/quote]

I think this is very true, I have found a lot of people think because they bought the supplement legally on a supplement site that there’s no way it would harm them and aren’t even aware that they need a pct…


#7

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Smart money is always going to be on USER ERROR. Poor PCT, stacking with risky PH’s, simple stupidity, etc.
[/quote]

I think you’re right user error is most likely. Assuming that proper PCT and AI protocol is used, I don’t think it’s beneficial to try to figure out why Superdrol causes side effect a, b or c. A $40 blood test should be done. Trying to take more drugs to balance cortisol or progesterone or whatever is only going to cause more problems, unless done with blood tests and proper medical supervision.