Meat Glue

So, since whey will just convert to sugar, I guess those that go on the V-Diet would thus starve from lack of amino acids?

Your explanation is weak and unfounded. Don’t get me wrong. the processing of protein powder from a logical standpoint leans me towards consuming the majority of your protein from unprocessed food. That still doesn’t take the leap to that protein powders don’t provide beneficial protein for the body.

Many well educated strength coaches/nutrition coaches in the fitness industry would disagree with you (and not all of them make money from selling supplements).

Weak and unfounded? Name one natural whole food that has protein without fat… just one and I will back down.
Even vegetables and fruits have fat in the membranes that make up their cells in order to digest the small amounts of protein contained within. Seeds have oils. All the protein foods I listed previously don’t work without the fat. Whey in water or juice is the most retarded idea to come out of the fitness industry as of late. You clearly know nothing advanced about the digestion and assimilation of nutrients in food. And as far as the V-diet goes, I did say ‘most’ of the protein will be converted to sugar without fat. Everyone can digest a little bit without a bile/hydrochloric acid mix but its no where near the amount of whey in the shakes your downing.

BTW, nothing against Chris Shugart here, but I think doing an all liquid crash diet for a month is a cop out for those without discipline and mind power to make healthy nutrition a true lifestyle. I think defending your ideology with a completely unnatural liquid crash diet is weak and unfounded. Most strength coaches haven’t studied digestion. Hell, even most nutrition coaches haven’t studied enough about digestion. You could read a college textbook on the digestive system and be about as well informed

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
First, protein is protein; however if it’s not combined with fat then most will be converted to sugar and it’s no longer protein.
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Where did this info come from? Is there a reference for protein-without-fat-turns-to-sugar? What if I do mix whey protein powder in water and drink a shot glass of EVOO with it, does it fix the problem? Or does the protein have to be contained within fatty membranes?
If there’s something to this, then it’s unlikely someone will grow if their main source of protein is supplements, right? So many people seem to do just that though. Does it just seem that way?

good thing I toss some coconut oil into my protein shake then ;)… that and I use a protein powder that isn’t just protein

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Name one natural whole food that has protein without fat… just one and I will back down.
[/quote]

Well firstly whey does have a small amount of fat in it.

However in answer to your question: most white fish and tuna contain negligible fat.

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:

Now lets say you take your whey protein with fat which is what all proteins are found with in natural state whole foods (including milk, from which whey is derived). Milk, meat, poultry, fish, eggs, heart, liver, kidney, spleen, cheese, nuts. I bet you can’t find one that doesn’t and let me tell you why. The real controlling factor of how you’re going to digest food isn’t the food at all… (except when its overcooked which we will skip for simplicity) All protein foods are digested in a hydrochloric acid solution in your stomach. When the fat is present, your gall bladder releases bile in order to digest it. If your pancreas is healthy and functioning properly is will release pancreatic digest and proteolytic enzymes. So its not the food (or whey when combined with fat) thats digested quickly, it’s how much HCL, bile, proteolytic enzymes, and how well you chew your food (particle size; I hazard a guess whey may have an advantage for those who don’t chew there food down to an applesauce consistency but not for those who thoroughly chew their foods)

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Do you have any references for further reading or is the basis of your argument “natural foods” don’t have protein without fat?

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
All the more reason to order the T-bone!
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LOL. I sent this to my dad, now retired after a lifetime as a meat cutter. My grandfather (his dad) owned and passed down a local meat store that we owned for decades.

I asked him about it. He said he only knows anything about it from a couple articles like the one I sent. He says “At restaurants, I only order strip steaks. I know what they look like”.

LOL.

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Name one natural whole food that has protein without fat… just one and I will back down.
[/quote]

That is not evidence that it is necessary.

All sugar that occurs in fruit comes with fibre, but we can still utilize sugar without fibre just fine.

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Name one natural whole food that has protein without fat… just one and I will back down.
[/quote]

That is not evidence that it is necessary.

All sugar that occurs in fruit comes with fibre, but we can still utilize sugar without fibre just fine.
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Um, I didn’t say anything about sugar and fiber… Protein foods don’t come without fat for a reason. There is nothing that is all protein in nature. I didn’t say it was evidence, I was saying take good hard look at how foods were constructed for our digestion by the greatest chemist of all, mother nature. I don’t see any all protein solute dissolved in a water.

For the record, table sugar isn’t even a food. Its sugar cane melted down and spun in a centrifuge until 99% pure carbohydrate from the plant without any other factors (such as vitamins, minerals, bioflavinoids, enzymes etc.) that aid in digestion. Its negative nutrition as it steals these from your body in order to digest and assimilate it. So go ahead and eat your sugar without the rest of the fruit, if you care about your health its almost as stupid as eating protein without fat.

ElevenMag- curious on your education or profession. Are you a Chek Institute trainer or anything?

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

Do you have any references for further reading or is the basis of your argument “natural foods” don’t have protein without fat?
[/quote]

I learned this at the U of M and have since sold the textbooks but I can PM you and anyone who wants some stuff. You gotta give me some time though as i don’t have much free time to spend occurring the research for concepts in nutrition. It all started with experiments by Ivan Pavlov, the dog conditioning guy, on dogs stomachs and spans many years of ideas and revelations.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
ElevenMag- curious on your education or profession. Are you a Chek Institute trainer or anything?[/quote]

BS in Nutritional Science at the U of M. I work for relatives doing physical labor at a pepsi bottler. Only certification is ACE and that was only because I wanted to be a personal trainer at a gym that required it in college. Chek has some interesting ideas but I by no means agree with everything they say.

First off, food in its natural state was not constructed for our digesion. Rather our digestive system developed such that it could extract nutrients from the available food-stuff around us.

This doesn’t mean our digestive system is incapable of obtaining nutrients from more processed foods such as whey.

Again. You stated that amino acids from whey protein isolate are turned into sugar by our digestive system if they are taken without fat. Please provide evidence.

Your statements about nature and the food that occurs naturally are far from valid evidence.

If you make a statement that seems to run contrary to what people here have read in the past, you should at least be prepared to support it.