T Nation

Meat Glue

First Pink Slime…now meat glue:

CHICAGO, May 10 (Reuters) - The U.S. meat industry on Thursday defended an additive that critics have called “meat glue,” saying the enzymes are safe, natural and not being used to deceive consumers.

Recent reports have highlighted how meat processors use the enzymes, formally known as transglutaminase and beef fibrin, to bind smaller cuts of beef and pork and form consistently sized, uniformly shaped larger steaks.

The U.S. Agriculture Department says the enzymes, which are also used in imitation crabmeat and some pasta and dairy products, must be listed on the ingredient label of anything containing them.

But because most meat containing the enzymes is sold to the food service industry, critics say few consumers know they’re eating them.

Critics have also suggested the enzymes, which are derived from beef plasma and other sources, could be used to deceive consumers by turning smaller, inexpensive cuts of meat into what appear to be premium cuts.

Hoping to avoid the fallout over the use of “pink slime” in ground beef, the American Meat Institute hosted an hour-long conference call on Thursday with representatives of Ajinomoto North America and Fibrimex, the two companies that manufacture the enzymes.

They said the enzymes find their way into only a fraction of the meat sold in the country. A typical use, they said, was to help bind two, triangular-shaped beef tenderloins together to create a uniform filet that might wind up being served in a restaurant, casino or banquet hall or on a cruise ship.

Mark Dopp, the Institute’s top lawyer, called allegations the glue is being used to make chuck steak look like filet mignon “unfounded.”

Some critics, like William Marler, a Seattle attorney who specializes in food safety litigation, say that while the enzymes themselves are harmless, consumers who eat steaks formed with them could be at higher risk for food-borne illness.

“If you’ve got a steak that has meat glued together, the only way you can make that product safe is to cook it well done,” Marler said on Thursday.

“But since consumers don’t know that, they won’t know they have to order it that way. That’s the problem.”

Dana Hansen, an associate professor of meat science at North Carolina State University who participated in Thursday’s call, said such concerns were unfounded.

He said the USDA recommends meat containing the enzymes be cooked to 145 degrees Fahrenheit with a three minute rest period.

"Within a restaurant setting this temperature is typical even of rare steaks,â?? Hansen said.

Ajinomoto and Fibrimex said the enzymes had an unblemished food safety record and had been used in the United States for two decades.

Earlier this year, public outcry erupted over the use of ammonia-treated beef that critics called “pink slime” in ground beef.

Sales of the additive dropped as consumers became aware of the practice - despite USDA and industry expert claims that the beef was safe to eat.

Last week, Beef Products Inc, the top U.S. producer of ammonia-treated beef, said it was closing three of its four plants and laying off 650 workers as a result of the controversy.

soylent green

The only real issue here is does the public demand a 99 sent hamburger and all that entails, or do they want quality meat in their food and in their bodies? If you are buying a fast first burger, you are getting crap, and you knew it when you bought it.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The only real issue here is does the public demand a 99 sent hamburger and all that entails, or do they want quality meat in their food and in their bodies? If you are buying a fast first burger, you are getting crap, and you knew it when you bought it. [/quote]

Uh no. Your response doesn’t even demonstrate that you understand the use of the meat glue or enzyme. Basically, they can glue together smaller pieces of meat (say tips) to make a larger one. Then they slice these into “steaks”, grill them up and you have a nice higher margin “filet”. This goes on in sit-down restaurants, not fast food joints.

The problem is, that if you order a filet rare or medium rare, the center has not seen a high enough temperature to kill off pathogens. This is not a problem in a naturally whole cut of meat, because the insides have never seen the light of day. However, in a “glued” steak, the insides may have once been on the outside and been exposed to pathogens that could make you sick.

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The only real issue here is does the public demand a 99 sent hamburger and all that entails, or do they want quality meat in their food and in their bodies? If you are buying a fast first burger, you are getting crap, and you knew it when you bought it. [/quote]

Uh no. Your response doesn’t even demonstrate that you understand the use of the meat glue or enzyme. Basically, they can glue together smaller pieces of meat (say tips) to make a larger one. Then they slice these into “steaks”, grill them up and you have a nice higher margin “filet”. This goes on in sit-down restaurants, not fast food joints.

The problem is, that if you order a filet rare or medium rare, the center has not seen a high enough temperature to kill off pathogens. This is not a problem in a naturally whole cut of meat, because the insides have never seen the light of day. However, in a “glued” steak, the insides may have once been on the outside and been exposed to pathogens that could make you sick. [/quote]

Because consumers demand doesn’t drive those markets? What sit down restaurants do this?

I know the guy that cuts the stakes I eat.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The only real issue here is does the public demand a 99 sent hamburger and all that entails, or do they want quality meat in their food and in their bodies? If you are buying a fast first burger, you are getting crap, and you knew it when you bought it. [/quote]

Uh no. Your response doesn’t even demonstrate that you understand the use of the meat glue or enzyme. Basically, they can glue together smaller pieces of meat (say tips) to make a larger one. Then they slice these into “steaks”, grill them up and you have a nice higher margin “filet”. This goes on in sit-down restaurants, not fast food joints.

The problem is, that if you order a filet rare or medium rare, the center has not seen a high enough temperature to kill off pathogens. This is not a problem in a naturally whole cut of meat, because the insides have never seen the light of day. However, in a “glued” steak, the insides may have once been on the outside and been exposed to pathogens that could make you sick. [/quote]

Because consumers demand doesn’t drive those markets? What sit down restaurants do this?

I know the guy that cuts the stakes I eat.
[/quote]

Many people don’t.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The only real issue here is does the public demand a 99 sent hamburger and all that entails, or do they want quality meat in their food and in their bodies? If you are buying a fast first burger, you are getting crap, and you knew it when you bought it. [/quote]

Uh no. Your response doesn’t even demonstrate that you understand the use of the meat glue or enzyme. Basically, they can glue together smaller pieces of meat (say tips) to make a larger one. Then they slice these into “steaks”, grill them up and you have a nice higher margin “filet”. This goes on in sit-down restaurants, not fast food joints.

The problem is, that if you order a filet rare or medium rare, the center has not seen a high enough temperature to kill off pathogens. This is not a problem in a naturally whole cut of meat, because the insides have never seen the light of day. However, in a “glued” steak, the insides may have once been on the outside and been exposed to pathogens that could make you sick. [/quote]

Because consumers demand doesn’t drive those markets? What sit down restaurants do this?

I know the guy that cuts the stakes I eat.
[/quote]

I hope you’re eating steaks, not wooden stakes. Check this out:

[i] PITTSBURGH - The prime filet steaks customers think they’re ordering at restaurants may actually be pieces of stew held together by “meat glue.”

Doug Shirey, a chef at Mighty Oak Barrel in Oakmont, said his restaurant doesn’t use meat glue, but showed Parsons how it works.

The transglutaminase is used to bond pieces of meat that would have likely been scrapped or used for a stew.

The meat is wrapped together, put in the refrigerator, and 12 hours later, it’s gone from stew meat to prime filet steaks.

The difference is virtually unnoticeable – raw or cooked.

“They’re taking the clotting agents out of pigs’ and cows’ blood, and they’re using that to clot together chunks of meat,” said Nigel Tudor, a cattle rancher at Weatherbury Farm in Washington County. “Just like a clot forms whenever you get a cut, except instead of healing up a wound, it’s taking pieces of meat and clotting them to each other into one giant chunk.”

Mighty Oak Barrel owner Grainne Trainor said a supplier recently tried to sell the restaurant meat glue.

“There’s a deceptive quality we don’t like about it, and there’s also a health and sanitation quality that we absolutely disagree with,” said Trainor. [/i]

Watch the video here:

http://www.wtae.com/Is-Your-Prime-Steak-Held-Together-By-Meat-Glue/-/9681798/12277090/-/exsc5l/-/index.html

It’s pretty cool that someone thought this up.

Can they really do such a good job that the fibres don’t give it away?

[quote]anonym wrote:
It’s pretty cool that someone thought this up.[/quote]

i was thinking the same thing.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The only real issue here is does the public demand a 99 sent hamburger and all that entails, or do they want quality meat in their food and in their bodies? If you are buying a fast first burger, you are getting crap, and you knew it when you bought it. [/quote]

Uh no. Your response doesn’t even demonstrate that you understand the use of the meat glue or enzyme. Basically, they can glue together smaller pieces of meat (say tips) to make a larger one. Then they slice these into “steaks”, grill them up and you have a nice higher margin “filet”. This goes on in sit-down restaurants, not fast food joints.

The problem is, that if you order a filet rare or medium rare, the center has not seen a high enough temperature to kill off pathogens. This is not a problem in a naturally whole cut of meat, because the insides have never seen the light of day. However, in a “glued” steak, the insides may have once been on the outside and been exposed to pathogens that could make you sick. [/quote]

Because consumers demand doesn’t drive those markets? What sit down restaurants do this?

I know the guy that cuts the stakes I eat.
[/quote]

Many people don’t.[/quote]

Exactly.

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The only real issue here is does the public demand a 99 sent hamburger and all that entails, or do they want quality meat in their food and in their bodies? If you are buying a fast first burger, you are getting crap, and you knew it when you bought it. [/quote]

Uh no. Your response doesn’t even demonstrate that you understand the use of the meat glue or enzyme. Basically, they can glue together smaller pieces of meat (say tips) to make a larger one. Then they slice these into “steaks”, grill them up and you have a nice higher margin “filet”. This goes on in sit-down restaurants, not fast food joints.

The problem is, that if you order a filet rare or medium rare, the center has not seen a high enough temperature to kill off pathogens. This is not a problem in a naturally whole cut of meat, because the insides have never seen the light of day. However, in a “glued” steak, the insides may have once been on the outside and been exposed to pathogens that could make you sick. [/quote]

Because consumers demand doesn’t drive those markets? What sit down restaurants do this?

I know the guy that cuts the stakes I eat.
[/quote]

I hope you’re eating steaks, not wooden stakes. Check this out:

[i] PITTSBURGH - The prime filet steaks customers think they’re ordering at restaurants may actually be pieces of stew held together by “meat glue.”

Doug Shirey, a chef at Mighty Oak Barrel in Oakmont, said his restaurant doesn’t use meat glue, but showed Parsons how it works.

The transglutaminase is used to bond pieces of meat that would have likely been scrapped or used for a stew.

The meat is wrapped together, put in the refrigerator, and 12 hours later, it’s gone from stew meat to prime filet steaks.

The difference is virtually unnoticeable – raw or cooked.

“They’re taking the clotting agents out of pigs’ and cows’ blood, and they’re using that to clot together chunks of meat,” said Nigel Tudor, a cattle rancher at Weatherbury Farm in Washington County. “Just like a clot forms whenever you get a cut, except instead of healing up a wound, it’s taking pieces of meat and clotting them to each other into one giant chunk.”

Mighty Oak Barrel owner Grainne Trainor said a supplier recently tried to sell the restaurant meat glue.

“There’s a deceptive quality we don’t like about it, and there’s also a health and sanitation quality that we absolutely disagree with,” said Trainor. [/i]

Watch the video here:

http://www.wtae.com/Is-Your-Prime-Steak-Held-Together-By-Meat-Glue/-/9681798/12277090/-/exsc5l/-/index.html

[/quote]

Could be steak stakes…

I’m not arguing its bad, I’m just saying the customers are the reason.

This has been a secret in the meat industry for YEARS. On a similar note, the supplement industry skims whey off of cottage cheese resulting in a inferior amino acid ratio compared to whey in milk which most studies are done with. Basically, if anything is cheap it’s not because they are giving you a deal, its because the product is inferior in some way in order for the establishment to pocket more of your cash. Go to a renowned steak house for your steaks if you don’t want to be fooled. Buy milk and egg protein products and not whey unless you can find a company that tells you where it comes from (good luck, they all hide this dirty secret)

I fail to see the logic in the whey issue as mentioned above. Then again, maybe I’m blinded by my love for it.

why protein products have an inferior amino acid profile? this is news to me, and I’m thinking unfounded.

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
This has been a secret in the meat industry for YEARS.

Oh really ??..care to elaborate ?

It been around since the 50’s… look it up. If you an actual butcher and you didn’t know this I’m surprised. Wait till they reveal how shitty the meat we get from mexico is. I know you’ve had it under your blade… That shit feels like rubber as your cutting it, not at all like real meat.

They use this “meat glue” in all kinds of things. There is most likely nothing to worry about as long as you don’t get these steaks made from it and undercooked. It just a protein that gets broken down by the bile and acid in your stomach to its component amino acids. It could be a problem if you don’t digest your food properly since undigested food particles can travel through you blood stream, are treated as intruders and have to be removed by you immune system. Sadly, indigestion is a big problem in america since a lot of people take antacids…

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Basically, if anything is cheap it’s not because they are giving you a deal, its because the product is inferior in some way in order for the establishment to pocket more of your cash. Go to a renowned steak house for your steaks if you don’t want to be fooled. [/quote]

There is no reason to believe that paying more or going to a renowned establishment is going to prevent being fooled. If the bargain products are doing it then in all likelihood the premium places are doing it and taking more of your money.

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Basically, if anything is cheap it’s not because they are giving you a deal, its because the product is inferior in some way in order for the establishment to pocket more of your cash. Go to a renowned steak house for your steaks if you don’t want to be fooled. [/quote]

There is no reason to believe that paying more or going to a renowned establishment is going to prevent being fooled. If the bargain products are doing it then in all likelihood the premium places are doing it and taking more of your money.
[/quote]

I would love to see someone develop a technique to clean a previously cooked bone (from a previous patrons meal to save money) entirely of meat and them meat glue some chuck steak onto it to form a swiss fillet. That guy would really make some bank.

If your buying a large, bone-in steak that been aging for awhile from a renowned steak house near you I doubt they would use this crap. However you right there really is no way to truly know.

All the more reason to order the T-bone!

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I fail to see the logic in the whey issue as mentioned above. Then again, maybe I’m blinded by my love for it.

why protein products have an inferior amino acid profile? this is news to me, and I’m thinking unfounded.[/quote]

This is gonna be a little lengthy reply but bear with me and don’t skim as it all builds towards my point. Whey protein research and marketing is full of phony baloney. Almost everyone that sells whey advocates that it is digested quicker and easier than other proteins, hence why you take it pre and post workout for quick amino acid rush into your blood stream and to the muscles for the fastest gains! This is all marketing bullsh*t backed up by phony research and tests. So lets look at digestion of this protein that supposedly is more easily and quickly absorbed by your body.

First, protein is protein; however if it’s not combined with fat then most will be converted to sugar and it’s no longer protein. Assuming you don’t combine your whey with fat, you get a great feeling after finising, the sugar buzz, which we all know sugar is a drug of it’s own and can cause addiction. When I used to take the stuff with water I would feel great (“Man this stuff really goes to work” I would say in my head)

Now lets say you take your whey protein with fat which is what all proteins are found with in natural state whole foods (including milk, from which whey is derived). Milk, meat, poultry, fish, eggs, heart, liver, kidney, spleen, cheese, nuts. I bet you can’t find one that doesn’t and let me tell you why. The real controlling factor of how you’re going to digest food isn’t the food at all… (except when its overcooked which we will skip for simplicity) All protein foods are digested in a hydrochloric acid solution in your stomach. When the fat is present, your gall bladder releases bile in order to digest it. If your pancreas is healthy and functioning properly is will release pancreatic digest and proteolytic enzymes. So its not the food (or whey when combined with fat) thats digested quickly, it’s how much HCL, bile, proteolytic enzymes, and how well you chew your food (particle size; I hazard a guess whey may have an advantage for those who don’t chew there food down to an applesauce consistency but not for those who thoroughly chew their foods)

So here is a marketing ploy by the entire supplement industry who actually do not care about you or the truths about nutrition. They are slick people who will lie about anything in order to make a buck off selling you 20 dollar tubs of inferior protein. Even worse they tell you to combine it with water or juice in order to give you a massive sugar buzz that in essence is like chugging a soda before you head to the gym.

Now lets look at milk compared to the whey derived from it. Do you realize that changes are made by the bacteria that ferment the milk into the curds from which the whey is squeezed out of or would you like to believe the supplement industry when they tell you it’s exactly the same as the stuff that came from the milk that was poured into the vats hours before millions upon millions of different kinds of bacteria are given the perfect environment to become a massive culture. Bacteria are made out of amino acids and use them in every protein that makes up every organelle in their tiny little cells. They also have their own digestive enzymes they can release into the environment. What do you think happens when you bathe them in usable amino acids with an optimal growth enviroment?