T Nation

Meal Frequency

[quote]Dave1986 wrote:

[quote]vcjha wrote:

[quote]Dave1986 wrote:
I have nothing against these Diets. They may work for some people just fine and I’m happy for them. HOWEVER OP you are looking to get bigger I presume? At least I hope so. How many Bodybuilders have you heard of eating 2 meals a day? It just doesn’t happen. After you get yourself a nice LARGE physique then fool around with these other Idea’s a diets.

But at your stage you need CALORIES and HEAVY WEIGHT being moved around in the gym. Keep it simple I HATE when people who have not made a good deal of progress over analize every little detail when they aren’t doing the basics like something as simple as being in a Calorie surplus and are tearing their body’s down in the gym.

Just my two cents! [/quote]

Yep, are already doing those two things. So you’re saying go ahead and follow six times a day? since two times a day is absurd?
[/quote]

YES at least 6 meals a day! Good calories and Lots of them. Good luck[/quote]

Thank you. Dammit, I hate eating clean. If only I could go back to when I was bulking six months ago. Even eating flavorless dry chicken breast biting it like beef jerky was no big deal.

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
Here is the thing for the OP. He probably hasnt built up his appetite yet, and thus does not understand what it feels like to actually be fueling yourself, not just eating. We all know that without proper fueling, training will just suck balls. I cant imagine going more than 4 hours without eating, let alone 7-8. But at one point in my life, I was eating like that (before I trained seriously).

Once I tought myself how to eat properly, my body demanded food. I did not have the option of eating two meals a day, that just wasnt going to cut it. Every 3 hours or so, I HAD to eat. This is what it takes to put on some mass.

For you OP, if you need to, set a schedule, if thats what it takes to teach you how to eat and how much to eat. Take your target cals, spread them over 6 meals, 3 hours apart, and then eat. This will probably be a huge eye opener for you, as to how much food you really need, and how little you are probably getting right now.

What I am saying is, if you are not naturally hungry pretty much all the fucking time when you are training hard, then you need to schedule your food to ensure you are getting enough cals.

Ask anyone who does this what it is like to wake up late and miss a scheduled meal. Finding room throughout the day to get those missed calories in the other 5 meals can be challenging. Most people will never realize that until they pay close attention to what they are eating though.[/quote]

Damn I wish I could eat that much. Shit, I’d make eating my job, but fuck my I can’t support it even with my parents’ money. I do with what I can.

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
Here is the thing for the OP. He probably hasnt built up his appetite yet, and thus does not understand what it feels like to actually be fueling yourself, not just eating. We all know that without proper fueling, training will just suck balls. I cant imagine going more than 4 hours without eating, let alone 7-8. But at one point in my life, I was eating like that (before I trained seriously).

Once I tought myself how to eat properly, my body demanded food. I did not have the option of eating two meals a day, that just wasnt going to cut it. Every 3 hours or so, I HAD to eat. This is what it takes to put on some mass.

For you OP, if you need to, set a schedule, if thats what it takes to teach you how to eat and how much to eat. Take your target cals, spread them over 6 meals, 3 hours apart, and then eat. This will probably be a huge eye opener for you, as to how much food you really need, and how little you are probably getting right now.

What I am saying is, if you are not naturally hungry pretty much all the fucking time when you are training hard, then you need to schedule your food to ensure you are getting enough cals.

Ask anyone who does this what it is like to wake up late and miss a scheduled meal. Finding room throughout the day to get those missed calories in the other 5 meals can be challenging. Most people will never realize that until they pay close attention to what they are eating though.[/quote]

x2

The first bulk I did I felt like I was going to puke almost all day and found it difficult to train. I couldn’t believe how much food it was taking to obtain the calorie limit I was trying to reach. After about 2-3 weeks of feeling like I was stuffing myself constantly I started noticing that instead of feeling stuffed after every meal I began feeling replenished (the best word I can use to describe the feeling) After a while I was starving if I missed one of my meals and then eventually I felt like I could always eat. I wasn’t always “hungry” per-say but I did feel like no matter how much I ate withing 20 min I could start all over again. My body just adapted and began wanting and needing the calories that I used to have to force myself to eat.

And sleeping in as Smithers pointed out is a bitch. I still struggle with this sometimes. Especially if I went out the night before and I end up sleeping in til 11am, I just skipped about 3 meals since I normally wake up at 430 on weekdays. Trying to compensate for those calories without eating an excess of carbs is quite a task, I task I admit that I normally fail.

I don’t know if there’s any studies proving that eating every 2 hours is the best way to go. But coming from someone who used to lift hard twice a day eat 3 times a day and couldn’t get above 135lbs, eating every 2 hours definitely works, especially if they are high protein high calorie meals. Start counting your calories, set an educated calorie limit goal everyday and try and hit it eating only 3 meals a day. Damn near impossible if you’re eating clean.[/quote]

It can be done though. But thanks for the personal experience. This is what I’ve been looking for.

Now, for my the intake I usually try to eat. Alright, so first off it’s Lunch. Really it should be called breakfast, but it is past 12 hehe. Start off with a protein shake consisting of 3 cups of oatmeal, 1 scoop of protein powder, and 2 cups of milk. Then a sandwich usually consisting of 3 eggs and 2 slices of whole wheat bread, sometimes even 2 cheese slices equaling 6 grams of protein. Somewhere along the way, another cup of milk. All this happens continuously and is eaten with 45 min.

Dinner is usually a whallop. It’s two full-size plates or bowls of whatever my parents are cooking. Yesterday, I ate two pho-sized bowls of rice noodles with some kind of egg thing, lots of tofu, and vegetables along with a chicken breast. Talk to any asian or anybody who’s eaten pho and they’ll tell you it’s probably the biggest sized soup there is. Stuff down two sandwiches consisting of 4 tbsp of peanut butter each, and finish off with a scoop of protein powder, 1 cup of frozen fruit, and a cup of milk blended into a shake. tbsp of peanut butter is 18 g of peanut butter.

Before I go to sleep, 122 g of cottage cheese, which has 11 along with my fish oils and multi-vitamin. So far I’m listening to you guys and stuffing my face. Just remember I can only stuff my face with so much food before I break my parents’ wallet too, and that’s not a pretty argument to go through.

I don’t count calories because I feel better just stuffing my face, and I don’t count protein but I’m pretty sure I hit somewhere along 220.

[quote]vcjha wrote:
Damn I wish I could eat that much. Shit, I’d make eating my job, but fuck my I can’t support it even with my parents’ money. I do with what I can. [/quote]

Well, this doesnt have to be expensive. Things like buying meats and chicken a day or two before it must be sold will save you money. Tuna is cheap (relatively speaking), most green veggies are not expensive (could even get them at the local farmers market or grow them yourself), and the price of Grow! whey protein or GNC protein is fairly inexpensive when you try to compare getting that much protein from other sources. Oats are cheap, and hell you can get 5 dollar footlongs at Subway, 5 dollar pizzas about anywhere, 1 dollar double cheeseburgers. Not that you should eat those things at every meal, but when times get tough, you got to do smoething.

If you cant afford to eat enough food, then you are not going to get big, period. So, if you cant or will not eat as much as EVERYBODY on this site has been telling you, then quit posting about it.

You know what you need to do, you have been given all the advice you need, either you do it or you dont. If you put half the effort into eating enough and training hard as you do posting threads on this site, you would be making progress by now.

I am not trying to attack you personally or anything, but I have read your threads, you have been given solid advice, and now its time to shut up and give it a shot. If you hit speed bumps along the way, that will help you learn.

I’m really confused. Why do you only eat twice a day and why do you have your first meal after 12:00 PM?

I forgot to mention the price of eggs and brown rice, both very cheap.

What exactly do you think most of us eat that is soooo expensive?

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
I forgot to mention the price of eggs and brown rice, both very cheap.

What exactly do you think most of us eat that is soooo expensive?[/quote]

Nope, you guys just have more money. I’m just dirt poor, because I spent it too early to have money for groceries. $80 a month is not enough to support you guys, but HAS to be for me. I know I’ve posted that on a thread before, but it’s the truth. Let’s do a list shall we? brown rice, eggs, tuna, vegetables, protein powder, chicken breast, steak, cottage cheese, peanut butter, whole wheat bread, cheese, milk, oatmeal, whole wheat pasta, frozen fruit, and finally . Minus the protein powder, I know it’s hard to believe, but I shop at COSTCO, which IS the cheapest place to buy food right now in San Diego, except meat, (I wish they’d improve the prices on that). We ring up $80 easily there, or I end up doing it because some things I have to buy more than one quantity. FML

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I’m really confused. Why do you only eat twice a day and why do you have your first meal after 12:00 PM? [/quote]

Honestly, lack of discipline to wake up, two meals because it’s so natural for me to eat two meals, minus the bedtime snack, which isn’t even a meal to me.

Man, you really have some soul searching to do.

If you dont have the discipline to wake up on time, how do you think you have the discipline to train hard and eat properly to build a good physique?

$80 a month to eat off of? Thats $20 a week, or $2.86 per day. If I were you, I would spend less time worrying about training, and more time figuring out how to make some money. Even if you just had a part time job that paid enough to cover your monthly food/supplement list.

Also, why did you list steak? For the price it would cost you to buy steak, you could buy another months worth of eggs. Milk and cheese dont need to be on that list either.

Most grocery stores have a place in their chicken/meat section where the put food that needs to be sold soon, and because of that they mark it down considerably. Its not like we have some inside scoop on when prices go down, you just go look in that section and buy shit from it, take it home, and cook it.

Why are you making threads on how to get huge and ripped and on meal frequency while claiming to lack discipline? You’re not going to accomplish anything with a lack of discipline to such a degree. I advise that you look inside yourself and see if you have what it takes to do what you have claimed you want. Everyone has the ability to do it, not everyone wants it badly enough. Right now, you don’t seem like you want it. Simple enough man.

[quote]vcjha wrote:

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
I forgot to mention the price of eggs and brown rice, both very cheap.

What exactly do you think most of us eat that is soooo expensive?[/quote]

Nope, you guys just have more money. I’m just dirt poor, because I spent it too early to have money for groceries. $80 a month is not enough to support you guys, but HAS to be for me. I know I’ve posted that on a thread before, but it’s the truth. Let’s do a list shall we? brown rice, eggs, tuna, vegetables, protein powder, chicken breast, steak, cottage cheese, peanut butter, whole wheat bread, cheese, milk, oatmeal, whole wheat pasta, frozen fruit, and finally .
[/quote]

More money??? HAH!!! You must not be to college yet. Pretty much the entirety of my tax returns went to stocking up on supplements and workout gear (with a little set aside for a couple nights out and some job-interview crap). You’re gonna have to make sacrifices though and this might mean you don’t spend money socializing for a few months, or you have to become really selective about what you and your friends do for a while, but you have the power and control over yourself to get your results. As far as your list, of groceries, by Michigan standards I’m estimating about $58 a week, and I think that’s a bit generous on the price. Shop manager’s specials for meat, DITCH THE FROZEN FRUIT (buy whatever fruit is on sale), buy frozen bags of veggies - they’re often flash frozen and MUCH cheaper - like $1 for 16 oz. ditch the milk or the cheese if you’re keeping in cottage cheese. You’re getting plenty of dairy and can make your cals up more efficiently. If you’re buying brown rice, why bother with pasta? Rice is cheaper and better for you. Cut down on the tuna a bit, and add in some beans. You can buy them by the lb for maybe $1.79 - just soak them overnight and boil them a bit the next day. Toss them in salads, casseroles, wraps, you name it. Get your parents to buy more food along these lines too, so that you always have them around (if you’re living at home)

[quote]vcjha wrote:

Thank you. Dammit, I hate eating clean. If only I could go back to when I was bulking six months ago. Even eating flavorless dry chicken breast biting it like beef jerky was no big deal.[/quote]

if that’s you in your pic…why exactly have you stopped bulking? not meant to be an insult…just that you don’t look like you are 250

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
Why are you making threads on how to get huge and ripped and on meal frequency while claiming to lack discipline? You’re not going to accomplish anything with a lack of discipline to such a degree. I advise that you look inside yourself and see if you have what it takes to do what you have claimed you want. Everyone has the ability to do it, not everyone wants it badly enough. Right now, you don’t seem like you want it. Simple enough man. [/quote]

I think he’s just one of these kids who likes the idea of being muscular, but prefers to talk about it more than actually doing what it takes to get there. It’s like he thinks that talking about all this stuff makes him a bodybuilder.

I can’t think of any other reason for all of his threads asking the same things over and over while seemingly ignoring all the pertinent advise given.

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
I think he’s just one of these kids who likes the idea of being muscular, but prefers to talk about it more than actually doing what it takes to get there. It’s like he thinks that talking about all this stuff makes him a bodybuilder.

I can’t think of any other reason for all of his threads asking the same things over and over while seemingly ignoring all the pertinent advise given. [/quote]

I agree, you are most likely right.

IMO no matter how scientific or precise you get, counting cals is the biggest thing by far. The best strategy is to keep cals in mind and employ a planned “Mix it up” meaning that you can do things like cycling (carbs) any and all macros (even fats and proteins), and you can cycle cals, either or both you can do on a daily/weekly/mesocycle basis and or a per meal basis. I’ve read tons of info on all this, and this is the only conclusion I can personally draw.

Although no evidence is fully supportive of the “mixing it up strategy,” conceptually if seems to follow logical, scientific and in the trenches advice. It’s neither extreme approach nor one that many typically do on purpose (although many ppl do it without thinking), but in any regard it’s a good middle of the ground approach, and you can’t really call it a plan, it’s just mixing things up in a logical manner. For example, I think targeted keto diet is a good and effective strategy.

P+F/P+C?? carb cycling? protein cycling? low protein day? cals/carbs increased to match intensity of activity (legs for example) or on days to emphasize a lagging bodypart? more cals in supercompensation/recovery phase? no carbs post workout? carbs preworkout? carbs in the morning?

leptin management? carb cutoffs/effects on growth hormome? long term keto/effects on testosterone? anabolic diet? supplementing with efas like GLA, EPA, DHA, etc? of course warrior diet and IF?.. all of these things are worth considering from an in-the-trenches or even scientific point of view.

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
IMO no matter how scientific or precise you get, counting cals is the biggest thing by far. The best strategy is to keep cals in mind and employ a planned “Mix it up” meaning that you can do things like cycling (carbs) any and all macros (even fats and proteins), and you can cycle cals, either or both you can do on a daily/weekly/mesocycle basis and or a per meal basis. I’ve read tons of info on all this, and this is the only conclusion I can personally draw.

Although no evidence is fully supportive of the “mixing it up strategy,” conceptually if seems to follow logical, scientific and in the trenches advice. It’s neither extreme approach nor one that many typically do on purpose (although many ppl do it without thinking), but in any regard it’s a good middle of the ground approach, and you can’t really call it a plan, it’s just mixing things up in a logical manner. For example, I think targeted keto diet is a good and effective strategy.

P+F/P+C?? carb cycling? protein cycling? low protein day? cals/carbs increased to match intensity of activity (legs for example) or on days to emphasize a lagging bodypart? more cals in supercompensation/recovery phase? no carbs post workout? carbs preworkout? carbs in the morning?

leptin management? carb cutoffs/effects on growth hormome? long term keto/effects on testosterone? anabolic diet? supplementing with efas like GLA, EPA, DHA, etc? of course warrior diet and IF?.. all of these things are worth considering from an in-the-trenches or even scientific point of view.[/quote]

This is great information – if you want to make things vastly overcomplicated for the average newbie.

It’s obvious based on following his posts that this kid needs the exact opposite, however.

[quote]vcjha wrote:

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
I forgot to mention the price of eggs and brown rice, both very cheap.

What exactly do you think most of us eat that is soooo expensive?[/quote]

Nope, you guys just have more money. I’m just dirt poor, because I spent it too early to have money for groceries. $80 a month is not enough to support you guys, but HAS to be for me. I know I’ve posted that on a thread before, but it’s the truth. Let’s do a list shall we? brown rice, eggs, tuna, vegetables, protein powder, chicken breast, steak, cottage cheese, peanut butter, whole wheat bread, cheese, milk, oatmeal, whole wheat pasta, frozen fruit, and finally . Minus the protein powder, I know it’s hard to believe, but I shop at COSTCO, which IS the cheapest place to buy food right now in San Diego, except meat, (I wish they’d improve the prices on that). We ring up $80 easily there, or I end up doing it because some things I have to buy more than one quantity. FML
[/quote]

Dude, you can get 5 dozen eggs at costco for like 6 bucks. They have frozen (tyson I think) chicken in 5 lb bags for ~$2 a pound for boneless skinless breasts, and probably less for thighs, $2/lb frozen ground sirloin (in those little tubes), canned beans for God knows how cheap if you buy a big can or multipack, or better yet a big bag of pintos, and a big bag of rice. Just buy these things and maybe a big thing of the chopped broccoli florettes, economy non natty PB, and a few pounds of bananas. I can easily see how you CAN eat plenty of quallity cals on $80 a month, especially if you prioritize rice and beans as your main calorie source. Also, don’t buy things like the brown rice bowls they have there. They’re probably ~40X more expensive $/cal than a bag of white rice. Brown rice is no better than white anyway if you eat it with protein or any fat at all. Eat the cheaper things from this list and skimp on the chicken breast and sirloin. Presto.

[quote]HK24719 wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
IMO no matter how scientific or precise you get, counting cals is the biggest thing by far. The best strategy is to keep cals in mind and employ a planned “Mix it up” meaning that you can do things like cycling (carbs) any and all macros (even fats and proteins), and you can cycle cals, either or both you can do on a daily/weekly/mesocycle basis and or a per meal basis. I’ve read tons of info on all this, and this is the only conclusion I can personally draw.

Although no evidence is fully supportive of the “mixing it up strategy,” conceptually if seems to follow logical, scientific and in the trenches advice. It’s neither extreme approach nor one that many typically do on purpose (although many ppl do it without thinking), but in any regard it’s a good middle of the ground approach, and you can’t really call it a plan, it’s just mixing things up in a logical manner. For example, I think targeted keto diet is a good and effective strategy.

P+F/P+C?? carb cycling? protein cycling? low protein day? cals/carbs increased to match intensity of activity (legs for example) or on days to emphasize a lagging bodypart? more cals in supercompensation/recovery phase? no carbs post workout? carbs preworkout? carbs in the morning?

leptin management? carb cutoffs/effects on growth hormome? long term keto/effects on testosterone? anabolic diet? supplementing with efas like GLA, EPA, DHA, etc? of course warrior diet and IF?.. all of these things are worth considering from an in-the-trenches or even scientific point of view.[/quote]

This is great information – if you want to make things vastly overcomplicated for the average newbie.

It’s obvious based on following his posts that this kid needs the exact opposite, however.[/quote]

Yeah I forgot the one of the most critical rules to writing - understand your audience, or in this case the OP. I made another post that should show up shortly

OP. GET A JOB!