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Meadows' Annihilation Wave Program


#1

I’m thinking of purchasing John Meadow’s latest program, the Annhialation Wave. I’ve never done a Meadows program, but it sounds pretty brutal, which I would love. Just wondering if anyone has done this particular program, or any of his previous programs. What is the length of the program, and what have peoples results been?

Thanks for your help!


#2

I bought the elite fts fundraising book which had a program of his in it. It was definitely well thought out and has some interesting techniques in it. It’s not really my thing so I moved on but if that style of training flicks your switch, then you won’t be disappointed.


#3

I did a couple. In the middle of Omega Beam right now.

They are very effective if:

(1)You understand the meaning of training muscles instead of movements. This does not mean you’re doing mainly isolation exercises. It means your MMC has to be good. If not, using certain techniques like pre-exhaustion will have the opposite effect on the intended muscle.

(2)You know your body well enough to manage volume vs intensity and quantify progress through ways other than adding weight to the bar.

(3)You need to force yourself to go lighter and mentally let go of previous PRs because your joints need a break from heavy lifting. This would be the most compelling reason to use his programs because IMO they are NOT more effective than doing other stuff as long as you understand (1) and (2).

(4)You have very good pain tolerance or you will not be able to perform some of his leg workouts effectively.


#4

Do you subscribe to his site dt79?


#5

[quote]Yogi wrote:
Do you subscribe to his site dt79?[/quote]
Nope.


#6

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
Do you subscribe to his site dt79?[/quote]
Nope.[/quote]

me neither, supposed to be really good though


#7

Thanks for your insight guys. dt79… how long of a program is the Omega beam? Standard 12 weeks of workouts? And is it something you could potentially repeat after a deload period?


#8

[quote]B_Easy wrote:
Thanks for your insight guys. dt79… how long of a program is the Omega beam? Standard 12 weeks of workouts? And is it something you could potentially repeat after a deload period? [/quote]
12 weeks. It’s a 4 day split. You will get a different workout each week. There will also be optional light workouts for chest/shoulders, back and legs so you have the option of training 7 days a week. These are extra workouts that you can customize according to his guidelines or follow the examples given.

I think you can train this way indefinitely unless you have goals of participating in competitions that require specialisation in certain lifts.


#9

His programs were all the rage here about 4,5 years ago.
The drop sets/beyond failure work will slow down strength gains if you care about that but otherwise good program. Try have some MAG-10/hydrolysed whey at hand postworkout


#10

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
His programs were all the rage here about 4,5 years ago.
The drop sets/beyond failure work will slow down strength gains if you care about that but otherwise good program[/quote]
Completely untrue if you understand the difference between failure of the intended muscle and technical failure of the movement.


#11

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
His programs were all the rage here about 4,5 years ago.
The drop sets/beyond failure work will slow down strength gains if you care about that but otherwise good program[/quote]
Completely untrue if you understand the difference between failure of the intended muscle and technical failure of the movement.[/quote]

repsectfully, I dont see much of a difference. I think its generally accepted on these forums that leaving a rep in the tank most of the time is preferable for strength progress. I’ve never seen guys like Dan John, Wendler etc advocate forced reps. No disputing there can be a place for them in pure bodybuilding tho.

Saying that I like a lot of Meadows stuff and all the cues and tweaks and believe that just training with that level of volume alone (and making sure you recover adequately) will take you very far


#12

Not to mention the difference between “strength skill” and “strength potential”.

If you’re not increasing muscle CSA at all you’re NOT getting “stronger” in a general sense, you’re “only” improving strength skill in a certain set of movements at a certain tempo and “optimised” fatigue level.

Obviously broad strokes lol, obviously BB training will improve strength skill to a certain extent and strength training will increase CSA to an extent.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
His programs were all the rage here about 4,5 years ago.
The drop sets/beyond failure work will slow down strength gains if you care about that but otherwise good program[/quote]
Completely untrue if you understand the difference between failure of the intended muscle and technical failure of the movement.[/quote]


#13

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
His programs were all the rage here about 4,5 years ago.
The drop sets/beyond failure work will slow down strength gains if you care about that but otherwise good program[/quote]
Completely untrue if you understand the difference between failure of the intended muscle and technical failure of the movement.[/quote]

repsectfully, I dont see much of a difference. I think its generally accepted on these forums that leaving a rep in the tank most of the time is preferable for strength progress. I’ve never seen guys like Dan John, Wendler etc advocate forced reps. No disputing there can be a place for them in pure bodybuilding tho.

Saying that I like a lot of Meadows stuff and all the cues and tweaks and believe that just training with that level of volume alone (and making sure you recover adequately) will take you very far[/quote]
You are still thinking about movements. Failure in a multijoint movement will usually occur a few reps after the intended muscle is exhausted and other muscles take over. Constantly going to failure and beyond after technical breakdown has occurred may be counterproductive to proficiency in the movement and recovery.

Keeping tension on the intended muscle while fighting against the body’s inclination to let other muscles take over when said muscle starts to fail will naturally lead you to stop the set before full technical breakdown has occurred.

Potential for “strength”, in the end, is determined by muscle size. If I gain a substantial amount of muscle using “bodybuilding” techniques and decide to specialize in selected movements after that with a proper peaking plan, I will almost certainly end up stronger than if I had not gone through the “bodybuilding” phase.


#14

[quote]jeremielemauvais wrote:
Not to mention the difference between “strength skill” and “strength potential”.

If you’re not increasing muscle CSA at all you’re NOT getting “stronger” in a general sense, you’re “only” improving strength skill in a certain set of movements at a certain tempo and “optimised” fatigue level.

Obviously broad strokes lol, obviously BB training will improve strength skill to a certain extent and strength training will increase CSA to an extent.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
His programs were all the rage here about 4,5 years ago.
The drop sets/beyond failure work will slow down strength gains if you care about that but otherwise good program[/quote]
Completely untrue if you understand the difference between failure of the intended muscle and technical failure of the movement.[/quote][/quote]

Agreed. How come your post just showed up lol?


#15

Given some of my previous shenanigans on this forum, the mods and members (rightfully so) feel apprehensive around me. I’m happy just to post tbh… even though the temptation to go rogue again is still there lol.

I feel some of the “strength shills” have been pulling the wool over too many noob’s eyes for too long with their size vs strength dichotomy.
Without naming names, I remember a diminutive coach with good powerlifting leverages (as expected for someone who’s 5 foot 6) and excellent pulling leverages (in particular) humble-bragging on his forum about how much stronger he was compared to a defensive lineman who was 100 pounds heavier and nearly a foot taller but struggled to bench his 3RM for one shaky rep (or something to that effect) and use it to fuel a “size vs strength” sermon, and remember chuckling to myself hoping our plucky little man never actually attempted to physically engage the football player (and get ragdolled despite his superior total).

The “train this way for strength WITHOUT size” shills are trying to equate “strength = strength-skill” to fleece morons of their lunch money while giving them quick SHORT TERM spikes in performance on a couple of gymlifts.

Point is, anyone who downplays the importance of hypertrophy in LONG TERM progression in a variety of gym lifts is taking you for a ride.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]jeremielemauvais wrote:
Not to mention the difference between “strength skill” and “strength potential”.

If you’re not increasing muscle CSA at all you’re NOT getting “stronger” in a general sense, you’re “only” improving strength skill in a certain set of movements at a certain tempo and “optimised” fatigue level.

Obviously broad strokes lol, obviously BB training will improve strength skill to a certain extent and strength training will increase CSA to an extent.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
His programs were all the rage here about 4,5 years ago.
The drop sets/beyond failure work will slow down strength gains if you care about that but otherwise good program[/quote]
Completely untrue if you understand the difference between failure of the intended muscle and technical failure of the movement.[/quote][/quote]

Agreed. How come your post just showed up lol?[/quote]


#16

Try it and see if you like it?


#17

Yes I have just started following this program actually. Have had to sub some exercises due to lack of equipment (i.e chains), but I’m liking how its set up so far. Only thing is I don’t have the money to buy plazma right now (currently a univerisity student), but i’m in the process of purchasing some branched cyclic dextrin to mix with some EAA’s to drink intra workout. I know it won’t have as substantial as an effect as plazma, but hopefully it will help with recovery.