T Nation

ME Equals Bad for MMA


#1

I asked Zach evan esh a question regarding how he trains his mma fighters. He told me that ME work could have negative effects on you as a fighter. He also trains his very serious fighters 2 times pre and 1 time post. He also said how he trained his fighters with stregth,power endurance. How can ME work effect training?


#2

[quote]motherofpearl wrote:
I asked Zach evan esh a question regarding how he trains his mma fighters. He told me that ME work could have negative effects on you as a fighter.[/quote] I wish he explained why but my guess is probably because of recovery. It’s pretty taxing on the body if you max out on a main lift. Then have to do pad work & technique drills 2 hours later.

[quote]He also trains his very serious fighters 2 times pre and 1 time post.[/quote] Pre & post what? between skill training?


#3

ME:I read your article on tut for grapplers on elitefts and it says that you do a tut excercise right after ME. I also look up workouts for mma on joes D’s website and I like how he said workout 3 times a week if you are not close to a fight then swich it to 2 days a week and condtion more. He gave a workout(circuit) fliping a tire more 1 minute and then holding a sandbag then jump rope and then shawdow boxing all 1 minute each. question is did that replace Me lower body or is that just a conditioning day? Joe states that doing workouts that require strength like the top example helps you maintain strength. Do you still have 2 ME days and that circuit just being Condtioning day while preparing for a fight and how do you use tut with defrancos method.

Zach Even Esh
mike, our guys who train very seriously train 1 x week, pre fight

post fight 2 x week

fighter skills are critical

we focus on strength endurance, power endurance and overall work capacity bro

ME work can negatively effect a fighter’s training, gotta be careful w/that!


#4

ME is not going to have bad effects… that is silly… it’s how you do ME that will cause problems… if your ME sessions have tons of volume then yes, it is going to interfere with recovery & possibly cause some unwanted tightness each session…

but ME done in very low volume, such as a few singles, will have a positive effect on fight-training… it stimulates the nervous system, which lasts for a few days post-training… this effect will have you throwing snappier punches and improve strength on the ground/wrestling etc…

take two fighters (lab rat experiment, same fighter, different training)

  1. one who only does bodyweight training, jump rope, sprints, and boxing
  2. one who does bodyweight training, throws in a few heavy singles on squat/pullup/pushup/curl 2x/week, jump rope, sprints, and boxing

who is going to be the stronger more explosive fighter?

if zach thinks 1. will be more explosive, then he is completely nuts and should refrain from giving fight training advice.

fighter 2 will have a higher work capacity, higher max & explosive strength, higher eccentric strength in the muscles needed to stop punches from injurying you (lats/scap muscles/biceps) - which allows you to punch faster, higher conentric & isometric strength needed in MMA sports, and this fighter would have an extra added mental edge considering heavy weightlifting improves your ability to tap into - voluntarily - the reserves that are only utilized in extreme life or death situations (this would happen after one really really improves their strength over the years).

peace


#5

Isn’t it kind of fighter dependant I doubt Nick Diaz would benfit from deadlifts or Damian Maia, but a wrestler type would like Hughes or a Lesnar.


#6

[quote]drewh wrote:
Isn’t it kind of fighter dependant I doubt Nick Diaz would benfit from deadlifts or Damian Maia, but a wrestler type would like Hughes or a Lesnar.[/quote]

why would it be fighter dependent?

getting stronger is only going to help…

and i don’t get why nick diaz wouldn’t benefit from getting stronger… look at him, he does marathons/ironman’s and most of his punches lately have NOTHING behind them… he relies more on cumulative damage.


#7

Did you see him drop Shamrick and Smith, Deny KO Lawler he was still doing iron mans back then too.


#8

[quote]adarqui wrote:
drewh wrote:
Isn’t it kind of fighter dependant I doubt Nick Diaz would benfit from deadlifts or Damian Maia, but a wrestler type would like Hughes or a Lesnar.

why would it be fighter dependent?

getting stronger is only going to help…

and i don’t get why nick diaz wouldn’t benefit from getting stronger… look at him, he does marathons/ironman’s and most of his punches lately have NOTHING behind them… he relies more on cumulative damage.[/quote]

I agree that maximal strength is one of the attributes needed for MMA, of course, but punching power is not one of the things that is massively affected by improvement of strength. It can help but I doubt it is the key that would make Nick Diaz throw Manhoef-bombs. (BTW Nick has 11 wins by KO. I wouldn’t say his punches have NOTHING behind them…)


#9

[quote]drewh wrote:
Did you see him drop Shamrick and Smith, Deny KO Lawler he was still doing iron mans back then too.[/quote]

Yep…


#10

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
adarqui wrote:
drewh wrote:
Isn’t it kind of fighter dependant I doubt Nick Diaz would benfit from deadlifts or Damian Maia, but a wrestler type would like Hughes or a Lesnar.

why would it be fighter dependent?

getting stronger is only going to help…

and i don’t get why nick diaz wouldn’t benefit from getting stronger… look at him, he does marathons/ironman’s and most of his punches lately have NOTHING behind them… he relies more on cumulative damage.

I agree that maximal strength is one of the attributes needed for MMA, of course, but punching power is not one of the things that is massively affected by improvement of strength. It can help but I doubt it is the key that would make Nick Diaz throw Manhoef-bombs. (BTW Nick has 11 wins by KO. I wouldn’t say his punches have NOTHING behind them…)[/quote]

lol he definitely wouldn’t turn into manhoef…

people here going to misinterpret what i said… nick diaz purposely stands in the pocket and throws punches without full power, really going for accuracy & to accumulate damage, which usually by the 3rd round really takes its toll on his opponent…

out of his 11 wins by “knockout”, most were TKO (9), and two were from pure KO… i mean, he doesn’t usually flatten people like he did to lawler… he relies on alot of volume, and being a complete badass.

definitely not taking anything away from diaz… he’s one of my favorite fighers… but he lacks that “pop” of someone who has ALOT of power… he really doesn’t sit down into most of his punches though, which is very beneficial to mma, being that you could be taken down easy.

peace


#11

ME doesnt help fighters? wtf u serious? maybe not in boxing where techinue can outclass strength (thats why nate has had some success with his hands) but notice how nate ends up his back in most fights, clay guida manhandled him with strength and high work rate. When you’re wrestling strength is a big factor, thats what i think anyways. Unless u like to play the bottom game and risk gettin pounded. Shit, Ive been doin 10sets of bench every weekend - hate to think i was wasting my time lol.


#12

[quote]adarqui wrote:
ME is not going to have bad effects… that is silly… it’s how you do ME that will cause problems… if your ME sessions have tons of volume then yes, it is going to interfere with recovery & possibly cause some unwanted tightness each session…

but ME done in very low volume, such as a few singles, will have a positive effect on fight-training… it stimulates the nervous system, which lasts for a few days post-training… this effect will have you throwing snappier punches and improve strength on the ground/wrestling etc…

take two fighters (lab rat experiment, same fighter, different training)

  1. one who only does bodyweight training, jump rope, sprints, and boxing
  2. one who does bodyweight training, throws in a few heavy singles on squat/pullup/pushup/curl 2x/week, jump rope, sprints, and boxing

who is going to be the stronger more explosive fighter?

if zach thinks 1. will be more explosive, then he is completely nuts and should refrain from giving fight training advice.

fighter 2 will have a higher work capacity, higher max & explosive strength, higher eccentric strength in the muscles needed to stop punches from injurying you (lats/scap muscles/biceps) - which allows you to punch faster, higher conentric & isometric strength needed in MMA sports, and this fighter would have an extra added mental edge considering heavy weightlifting improves your ability to tap into - voluntarily - the reserves that are only utilized in extreme life or death situations (this would happen after one really really improves their strength over the years).

peace[/quote]

YOU CAN’T BE SERIOUS


#13

[quote]drewh wrote:
Isn’t it kind of fighter dependant I doubt Nick Diaz would benfit from deadlifts or Damian Maia, but a wrestler type would like Hughes or a Lesnar.[/quote]

I disagree. All the times I have watched Nick lose or in trouble in a fight, his strength has always been a major factor. Take his fight with Riggs, or Deigo, or with Gomi (yes he won, but for much of the first he was being ragdolled).

On topic, I’ve found that ME work has helped me as a first year grappler. Doing squats and DLs in the lower reps have helped me explode on the mat, as have weighted chins and rows. My cardio is unaffected for the most part, as long as I don’t go loco on the volume in ‘assistant’ exercises.


#14

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
adarqui wrote:
ME is not going to have bad effects… that is silly… it’s how you do ME that will cause problems… if your ME sessions have tons of volume then yes, it is going to interfere with recovery & possibly cause some unwanted tightness each session…

but ME done in very low volume, such as a few singles, will have a positive effect on fight-training… it stimulates the nervous system, which lasts for a few days post-training… this effect will have you throwing snappier punches and improve strength on the ground/wrestling etc…

take two fighters (lab rat experiment, same fighter, different training)

  1. one who only does bodyweight training, jump rope, sprints, and boxing
  2. one who does bodyweight training, throws in a few heavy singles on squat/pullup/pushup/curl 2x/week, jump rope, sprints, and boxing

who is going to be the stronger more explosive fighter?

if zach thinks 1. will be more explosive, then he is completely nuts and should refrain from giving fight training advice.

fighter 2 will have a higher work capacity, higher max & explosive strength, higher eccentric strength in the muscles needed to stop punches from injurying you (lats/scap muscles/biceps) - which allows you to punch faster, higher conentric & isometric strength needed in MMA sports, and this fighter would have an extra added mental edge considering heavy weightlifting improves your ability to tap into - voluntarily - the reserves that are only utilized in extreme life or death situations (this would happen after one really really improves their strength over the years).

peace

YOU CAN’T BE SERIOUS
[/quote]

pretty srs.


#15

[quote]adarqui wrote:
ME is not going to have bad effects… that is silly… it’s how you do ME that will cause problems… if your ME sessions have tons of volume then yes, it is going to interfere with recovery & possibly cause some unwanted tightness each session…

but ME done in very low volume, such as a few singles, will have a positive effect on fight-training… it stimulates the nervous system, which lasts for a few days post-training… this effect will have you throwing snappier punches and improve strength on the ground/wrestling etc…

take two fighters (lab rat experiment, same fighter, different training)

  1. one who only does bodyweight training, jump rope, sprints, and boxing
  2. one who does bodyweight training, throws in a few heavy singles on squat/pullup/pushup/curl 2x/week, jump rope, sprints, and boxing

who is going to be the stronger more explosive fighter?

if zach thinks 1. will be more explosive, then he is completely nuts and should refrain from giving fight training advice.

fighter 2 will have a higher work capacity, higher max & explosive strength, higher eccentric strength in the muscles needed to stop punches from injurying you (lats/scap muscles/biceps) - which allows you to punch faster, higher conentric & isometric strength needed in MMA sports, and this fighter would have an extra added mental edge considering heavy weightlifting improves your ability to tap into - voluntarily - the reserves that are only utilized in extreme life or death situations (this would happen after one really really improves their strength over the years).

peace[/quote]

I dont know cause zach is one of the most knowlegable trainers out there. Maybe he thought that I was a “meathead” that only did ME and forgot about condtioning. Also he really didn’t anwer my question can some explain the question I asked zach? Also Does ME train stength,power endurance?


#16

No but it sets the threshold at which power endurance can take place. Think of the ME being the container and strength endurance, power etc the fluid that fills it. Smaller container smaller potential.


#17

how could being strong over time ever be a problem? Nick Diaz in a jitz guy. I have 0 respect for his stand up. I cant tell you how many times I’ve seen him fight and screamed “pak sow” at the top of my lungs. That pawing jab he has is gonna get his arm broke one day. ME cant hurt your game. Especially if you are mostly a grappler.


#18

sorry…pak sao for the hair splitters…I’m just waking up


#19

[quote]motherofpearl wrote:
adarqui wrote:
ME is not going to have bad effects… that is silly… it’s how you do ME that will cause problems… if your ME sessions have tons of volume then yes, it is going to interfere with recovery & possibly cause some unwanted tightness each session…

but ME done in very low volume, such as a few singles, will have a positive effect on fight-training… it stimulates the nervous system, which lasts for a few days post-training… this effect will have you throwing snappier punches and improve strength on the ground/wrestling etc…

take two fighters (lab rat experiment, same fighter, different training)

  1. one who only does bodyweight training, jump rope, sprints, and boxing
  2. one who does bodyweight training, throws in a few heavy singles on squat/pullup/pushup/curl 2x/week, jump rope, sprints, and boxing

who is going to be the stronger more explosive fighter?

if zach thinks 1. will be more explosive, then he is completely nuts and should refrain from giving fight training advice.

fighter 2 will have a higher work capacity, higher max & explosive strength, higher eccentric strength in the muscles needed to stop punches from injurying you (lats/scap muscles/biceps) - which allows you to punch faster, higher conentric & isometric strength needed in MMA sports, and this fighter would have an extra added mental edge considering heavy weightlifting improves your ability to tap into - voluntarily - the reserves that are only utilized in extreme life or death situations (this would happen after one really really improves their strength over the years).

peace

I dont know cause zach is one of the most knowlegable trainers out there. Maybe he thought that I was a “meathead” that only did ME and forgot about condtioning. Also he really didn’t anwer my question can some explain the question I asked zach? Also Does ME train stength,power endurance?[/quote]

This is a misinterpretation of What Zach said.
Its pretty easy, so he did answer the question
Recovery.

I cant speak for Zach but there is a time and place for every thing.

He is saying they do ME type work 1x a week leading up to a fight/match
he is talking about people that are competing at a semi serious level.

He also said He does ME training 2x a week post fight, meaning the BULK of their training.

For people who are training for a fight- which is different from your everyday kind of shit.

Skill work
conditioning
strength work

that is the priority for a fight prep,
for the rest of the time, program your strength work
so it just does not impact your skill work-

what is so hard to believe about this, if your competing- in college- on a serious recreational level or on a more serious level- your training to be a fighter/boxer/bjj what ever
that should be the emphasis, skillwork, conditioning, then strength work.

when your not peaking for a fight,
train how you like.

kmc


#20

[quote]Wayland wrote:
No but it sets the threshold at which power endurance can take place. Think of the ME being the container and strength endurance, power etc the fluid that fills it. Smaller container smaller potential.[/quote]

I’m gonna steal that analogy.