Hi,
Anyone found mct oil helpful on a keto diet. Have read where it can get you into ketosis quicker, that would be a good thing.
cheers!!
I’d suggest just using coconut oil. It is mostly MCT’s, tastes a lot better than most or perhaps all MCT products, and probably is cheaper too.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’d suggest just using coconut oil. It is mostly MCT’s, tastes a lot better than most or perhaps all MCT products, and probably is cheaper too.[/quote]
What kind of timing window would you suggest for either MCT or Coconut Oil Bill? I’m thinking in the morning maybe 1 to 3 ratio of Proteins to Fats…
Well, I have no real basis for saying any one timing is better than another.
First, I’d say that any time one would anyway be adding an oil is a perfectly suitable time for adding coconut oil.
I generally like Berardi’s advice of tending more towards P+C in the earlier part of the day and P+F in the latter though I don’t think this needs to be an iron-clad rule. (For some individuals, though, iron-clad rules psychologically work better, so if that is the case for a given person, then making it ironclad for himself can be a good idea.)
Then as a possible refinement, personally I like having coconut oil along with whey immediately or shortly after a workout, where the workout had plenty of carbs beforehand due to the Anaconda protocol and further carbs postworkout aren’t called for. The energy value of the MCT’s may well be of value though, as the whey alone is rather low in calories.
On a keto diet, that wouldn’t be the case (that there would have been this very recent high carb intake.) Here I would rather have the coconut oil preworkout to provide a ready source of energy.
But in general, really any time you would be adding an oil is a perfectly usable time for the coconut oil.
Thanks for that Bill. Do you think mct/coconut oil will help you get into ketosis quicker and or deeper into ketosis. Also maybe rev up the meatabolism abit which tends to slow on low carb diets.
Cheers!!
as far as i can remember, in the original book, dr says mct should be avoided…
However the reason DiPasquale gives makes not only no sense, but the opposite of sense, and he makes no statement regarding practical observations of not working well.
And I have never heard of a practical observation of it not working well, but certainly a number have said the opposite, that it has worked well.
Dr DiPasquale is a very smart and knowledgeable man but everyone can make a wrong statement, particularly when not relying on a practical observation but instead just an idea (in this case, the idea that somehow it is a bad thing for a dietary fat to be readily usable for energy. What, we would rather it be hard to use for energy and therefore preferably stored as fat? That is the opposite of making sense.)
As for “getting into ketosis faster,” there is no need to worry about results found with keto sticks. If you are consuming little carbs and that has been the case, then ketosis is going on. MCT’s will have nothing to do with this, as principally it has to do with supply of Kreb’s Cycle intermediates and levels of carbohydrate intake.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
However the reason DiPasquale gives makes not only no sense, but the opposite of sense, and he makes no statement regarding practical observations of not working well.
And I have never heard of a practical observation of it not working well, but certainly a number have said the opposite, that it has worked well.
Dr DiPasquale is a very smart and knowledgeable man but everyone can make a wrong statement, particularly when not relying on a practical observation but instead just an idea (in this case, the idea that somehow it is a bad thing for a dietary fat to be readily usable for energy. What, we would rather it be hard to use for energy and therefore preferably stored as fat? That is the opposite of making sense.)
As for “getting into ketosis faster,” there is no need to worry about results found with keto sticks. If you are consuming little carbs and that has been the case, then ketosis is going on. MCT’s will have nothing to do with this, as principally it has to do with supply of Kreb’s Cycle intermediates and levels of carbohydrate intake.[/quote]
ok thanks for the imput… maybe i will add some coconut oil to my shakes… but it looks as if all the brands here contain carbs, that should mean i can use very little of it!!!
Coconut oil is entirely different from coconut milk, which does contain carbs.
Coconut oil has no carbs. Any product that has carbs is not pure coconut oil.
ok thanks man… just found some milk in the supermarket, with only 2 carbs/100 ml, so i can take some in my shakes… but are the fats in the milk also mct?
And in the supermarket they have solid block of coconut-fat… it is white and solid, no oil, but also no carbs… good??
I’m sorry, for some reason I didn’t use the right term previously.
It is “coconut water” that is high in carbs and has almost no fat.
“Coconut milk” is ordinarily high in coconut fat and has little to no carbs, and is fine to use. Above I was actually thinking of coconut water when I said coconut milk. Oops.
“Coconut oil” has no carbs and as you have noted, can be solid in form. The melting point is right around room temperature (something like 73 or 74 degrees F I think, though I could be off a little.) So depending on conditions it appears as an oil or as a solid. It is fine to use either way.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, I have no real basis for saying any one timing is better than another.
First, I’d say that any time one would anyway be adding an oil is a perfectly suitable time for adding coconut oil.
I generally like Berardi’s advice of tending more towards P+C in the earlier part of the day and P+F in the latter though I don’t think this needs to be an iron-clad rule. (For some individuals, though, iron-clad rules psychologically work better, so if that is the case for a given person, then making it ironclad for himself can be a good idea.)
Then as a possible refinement, personally I like having coconut oil along with whey immediately or shortly after a workout, where the workout had plenty of carbs beforehand due to the Anaconda protocol and further carbs postworkout aren’t called for. The energy value of the MCT’s may well be of value though, as the whey alone is rather low in calories.
On a keto diet, that wouldn’t be the case (that there would have been this very recent high carb intake.) Here I would rather have the coconut oil preworkout to provide a ready source of energy.
But in general, really any time you would be adding an oil is a perfectly usable time for the coconut oil.[/quote]
I am currently using a keto diet and add 1-2 tbsp of coconut oil to my 2-scoop metobilic drive shake about 1 hour before my workout. As Bill says the melting point is about 74 degrees so I have to warm the water up to get the oil to “dissolve” (more of a suspension). Then I sip whey and take BCAA while I lift. I think Thibs recommended Glutamine, Glycine, and Leucine as the primary amino acids for people on keto diets to induce an insulin spike without the ingestion of sugar. Now I am sure that this doesn’t work as well as just having sugar, but it does seem to work.
I remember reading in an old copy of atkins where to increase ketosis or move past a sticking point they would increase fat intake and lower protein intake and keep carbs close to zero. Not sure what sort of food you would eat here, maybe diet jelly with thickened cream, mct oil, hand full of almonds?? I think this was only for a day or 2, then back to normal atkins/low carb
Anyone else recall reading something like this, maybe have an old version/book of atkins.
Maybe a normal keto meal of bacon and eggs etc for breakfast and then diet jelly and cream for lunch and dinner with couple of crushed almonds, mmm interesting. Just had a bowl of jelly and cream with almonds for lunch, i will give it an hour or 2 then do a workout and see if my ketone level go’s up. Been 6 days of very low carb dieting, ketostix are only just light pink, but feel good and not feeling hungary.Come on abs you can do it!!
Does he not qualify that statement by saying that the body will preferentially burn mct’s when ingested ahead of long chain fat’s from both diet and stored bodyfat? I have no idea how true or not that statement may be though?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
However the reason DiPasquale gives makes not only no sense, but the opposite of sense, and he makes no statement regarding practical observations of not working well.
And I have never heard of a practical observation of it not working well, but certainly a number have said the opposite, that it has worked well.
Dr DiPasquale is a very smart and knowledgeable man but everyone can make a wrong statement, particularly when not relying on a practical observation but instead just an idea (in this case, the idea that somehow it is a bad thing for a dietary fat to be readily usable for energy. What, we would rather it be hard to use for energy and therefore preferably stored as fat? That is the opposite of making sense.)
As for “getting into ketosis faster,” there is no need to worry about results found with keto sticks. If you are consuming little carbs and that has been the case, then ketosis is going on. MCT’s will have nothing to do with this, as principally it has to do with supply of Kreb’s Cycle intermediates and levels of carbohydrate intake.[/quote]
My points are,
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Why in the world would that be a bad thing? It makes the reverse of sense that it should be better, in place of a given amount of MCT’s, to consume fats that are less readily used as energy and therefore more likely to be stored. Unless our purpose was fat gain.
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He did not claim any practical observation of a problem, over the years I have never seen anyone report such a problem (and I’ve put out requests for such reports, if anyone had one, a number of times), and many have testified to MCT’s or coconut oil working absolutely fine during a ketogenic diet.
Certainly not a bad thing, far from it and I agree that coconut oil is a damn good food but IF the body is burning ingested mct’s preferentially, it’s not burning bodyfat which is one of the big advantages of the AD or CKD during the low carb week?
Well, I am putting the matter in the only reasonable way of comparing the matter: consuming a given amount of MCT’s instead of an equal amount other fats.
If one is determined to make it a matter of consuming a given amount of MCT’s on top of the exact same diet that would have been consumed otherwise – in other words, adding that number of calories to the day’s total – then yes of course fat loss would be less.
We could also in the same manner condemn consumption of any kind of fat in the ketogenic diet. Olive oil? Bad. If you add any substantial amount of olive oil to the same diet – and in all cases let’s assume a good ketogenic diet to begin with – fat loss will be slower, as this may be burned for energy instead of bodyfat, and since caloric deficit is less. So olive oil is bad for ketogenic diets. Having a given number of whole eggs instead of just the whites, again keeping the diet exactly the same otherwise? Bad, for the same reasons. So egg yolks are bad. Etc.
So this is not the way to look at it.
my thoughts were increasing fat intake and increasing ketosis would have more appetitte suppressing affects and then this would lower calorie intake without feeling hungry. The importance of eating every 3-4 hours on keto diet isnt neccessary because your body is living of the stored fat and ketones, ketosis is anticatabolic for muscle.
I think Vince Gironda only recommended two meals on this type of diet, i know if i have a big steak and salad its enough for me to run on all day, then another good feed at night, snack on a hand fall of almonds throughout the day. Thats what i like about keto diet, not hungry and not thinking about food, probably how skinny kids feel, lol
Your post brings out that for many cases, I should have included the comparison of consuming a given amount of MCT’s instead of a calorically equal amount of protein, where the protein is staying reasonable in either case.
As you say, hunger may be less on the more moderate protein, higher amount of fat. Actually it doesn’t have to be MCT’s for this to be the case. But MCT’s are fine for that if desired.