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Well, seeing as I have devoted my existence to defending all that is good and destroying all that is evil, I know how I would have handled the situation. Of course most people don’t spend every waking hour considering all the possibilities like I do.

Milgram proved nothing to me except that the world is full of weak-minded INDIFFERENT fools. The indifference of good men is the worst form of evil, after all.

I actually just recently wrote an essay refuting the idea of the power of the situation. It could stand to be revised a few times, but it’s not horrible.


The Power of a Strong Leader

By Robert Horn

 Philip G. Zimbardo (2004), a prominent social psychologist, said that "when the majority of ordinary people can be overcome by such pressures toward compliance and conformity, the minority who resist should be considered heroic" (p. 47).

This idea, that there are in this world a heroic few who fight when others would stand down, is the foundation upon which the world can be changed and over which evil can be triumphed. It is important to examine closely those individuals who have inherent resistance to the circumstances around them in times of trouble, and then use those observations to help average people understand what they have the potential to be.

One thing in the study of leaders is clear: true leaders have the inherent strength to overcome the power of the situation.

Before discussing a leader’s ability to overcome the situation, it is first necessary to define leadership for the context of this paper. In this context, I would define leadership as the ability both to think critically about a situation and make a moral judgment as to the correct course of action, and to influence others to see the true path in situations where they might ordinarily be lost.

With leadership defined, we can discuss the affect a leader can have on society. However, to discuss how the leader can combat evil, evil must also be defined. The best definition of evil I have seen is by Zimbardo (2004), who defined evil as “intentionally behaving, or causing others to act, in ways that demean, dehumanize, harm, destroy, or kill innocent people” (p. 22).

Now an intelligent account of the power of a leader to overcome the power of a situation can commence.

Consider the story of Lawrence Rockwood, a former Captain in the U.S. Army. While on Assignment in Haiti, Rockwood discovered that prisoners there were being grossly mistreated by the military that had overtaken the region. Determined to put a stop to this abuse, Rockwood forced the prison to let him take at least a small tour of the vicinity.

Once let in, he discovered many examples of mistreatment of the prisoners. His superiors did not have any intention of putting a stop to the madness. He was ordered to let it be. For the average person, the pressure of the situation to forget about the incident and move on would be too great to resist. Rockwood, however, is a true leader. He continued on with his fight against these inhumane acts, all the up to his discharge from the military for disobeying orders to cease his investigation (McDevitt, 2004, para. 7-10).

This example shows the great possibilities of the man that has enough “moral sense” (Rivkin, 2004, para. 4) to know when the majority are wrong and orders must be disobeyed.

At times the cinema can be a useful tool in showing society the side of an issue that has not been previously considered. One such example of this usefulness is the movie “Tears of the Sun”, starring Bruce Willis (Fuqua, 2003). Bruce Willis plays the part of a Navy SEAL officer who has been sent to a part of Africa to pick up an American citizen before the village in which she is residing is overtaken by the savage rebels. The woman who is to be rescued is working as a doctor to many wounded natives in the area. She refuses to leave unless the natives are allowed to come with them.

At first Bruce, in the name of the mission, does whatever is necessary to complete his mission. Doing whatever is necessary in this case meant tricking the natives of the village into thinking they were also being rescued, and then abandoning them at the last minute.

Initially it appeared that the situational forces were controlling Bruce’s actions, and, at first, they were. But Bruce started to see things clearly as the helicopter flew away from the desperate natives. His inner voice, the inherent force that told him what he was doing was wrong, took charge. He ordered the helicopter to turn around and valiantly took to a new, personal mission: to get the natives to the French Embassy before the rebels could wreak havoc on them.

There were many factors contributing the strong influence of the situation. He had orders, phone calls from his superior continually trying to get him back on track, and peer pressure from his platoon to ditch the natives and get back to the mission. An ordinary man might have cracked under the pressure. It is a true leader indeed who can overcome all those factors and do what is right. Bruce was a true leader. This strength is something for which we should all strive.

Perhaps a personal story will give more potency to the point I am trying to make. I consider myself to be “hardcore”. I have a personal set of values and morals which I try to consistently live by. One of these values is that I will not take advantage of a woman who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Most men I know think me a fool when I tell them this, because as far as they are concerned, these women are “ripe for the taking”.

Basically, the situation here is one in which it is considered acceptable to have sex with a woman who is drunk at a party. It is this situation that I had to deal with not too long ago. One night I went with a couple of my friends to a house party. Of course, there was alcohol at this party, and most people there were drunk. Now, I do not drink personally, but I find nothing wrong with those who do, which is why I stayed at the party and tried to have a good time.

So I was sober at this party, and a beautiful girl, obviously drunk, came up to me and we started talking. She was actually a pretty good conversationalist despite her drunkenness, which impressed me. I started to really like her, and I could tell she liked me too. After a while of talking, she wanted me to take her to a room so that we could be alone. Of course, being a man, there was nothing at that moment I wanted to do more than take her up on the offer. She was certainly a strong source of pressure, as well as my friends who told me I had to take advantage of this situation. Despite this seemingly overpowering situation, I resisted the temptation and asked the girl for her phone number instead.

I had the inner strength to do what I knew was right, regardless of what was easy. This kind of strength exists in a true leader.

I have thoroughly gone through and explained the inherent strength that true leaders possess, and how this strength can be used to resist the situational forces ever present in this world. However, this idea alone, the idea that leaders can do what is right in the toughest of circumstances, is not enough to change society for the better. Rather, I believe it is also necessary for the average person to realize that this strength that leaders possess is actually within us all. We need only to learn how to bring it out and use it to better our world.

This idea is where the true strength to overcome the situation lies. If everybody made the consistent effort to think about the situation they are in, and to do what they know is the right thing to do, not the easy thing to do, two things will happen: first, the incredible weight that currently rests on the few leader’s shoulders will be lightened. Second, the forces of evil that exist in this world will have a much harder time prevailing. And that, most definitely, is what we are all ultimately after.

References
Rivkin, R. S. (2004). Moral conscience and the war in Iraq. San Francisco Chronicle. Retrieved October 15, 2005, from MORAL CONSCIENCE AND THE WAR IN IRAQ / A duty to disobey

McDevitt, P. F. (2004). Do soldiers have a duty to disobey illegal orders? History News Network. Retrieved October 15, 2005, from Do Soldiers Have a Duty to Disobey Illegal Orders? | History News Network
Zimbardo, P. G. (2004). A situationist perspective on the psychology of evil: Understanding how good people are transformed into perpetrators. In A. G. Miller (Ed.), The social psychology of good and evil (pp. 21-50). New York: Guilford Press.

Fuqua, A. (Director), Bryce, I., Lobell, M., Rifkin, A. (Producers). (2003). Tears of the Sun [Motion picture]. United States: Columbia Pictures.

Retarded. Totally retarded. Devoid of any basic sense whatsoever.

It’s interesting, the concept of being able to stand up against the crowd. A lot of people rail against things, but are still just following along.

Anyhow, the world is a strange place, all the protection offered to children does little to prepare them for the bizarre and potentially clever predatory behaviors that are exhibited once they go forth into the real world.

Not much anyone outside of the picture can do but hope that the events that open their eyes are not too damaging or traumatic. I mean, eventually everyone gets their eyes opened sometime right?

That being said, I think the girl involved in this incident had it harsh enough before her case was made public for the world to discuss. I’m sure plenty enough people will make her and the others involved feel even worse for not figuring out it was a farce before it was to late.

[quote]chinadoll wrote:
Retarded. Totally retarded. Devoid of any basic sense whatsoever. [/quote]

The funniest thing is they didn’t seem embarrassed in the interview that they did it, they honestly think they were manipulated somehow.

Of course ABC News had to make the video available.

A little news porn to stir the rest of the sheep.

This world is totally screwed up.

[quote]lostinthought wrote:
Damici wrote:
Devinci wrote:
CollinAshmore wrote:
Oops, look like Devinci beat me too it. Sorry for the redundancy.

Well you said it better!

By the time he told her to give him a blowjob, did she not realize that perhaps something was awry . . . ?

Exactly…Of course she should have known something was up BEFORE the BJ…But I digress.

I have to add that I think I do know how I would act in a situation like that. I have been in many, many situations here at work where I’ve challenged all higher ups and I’ve also been challenged. I’ve been threatened with my job, have not backed down, and still have my job…(Now that may be the reason why I’m not liked by the higher ups, but then I don’t really care if I am or not).

I’ve also been challenged by real life cops and have stood to my convictions, (but we won’t talk about that).

Sheep…People who don’t stand by their convictions or just don’t have any convictions is probably my biggest pet peeve.
[/quote]

There was an incident that was almost the same as this here. A guy in an unmarked crown vic pulled behind a young lady and lighted her up.

She didn’t see any markings on the car which would confirm that it was a actual law enforcment unit so she called 911. The dispatch told her not to stop and keep driving on the interstate and that she was sending units her way. They instructed her not to stop until the other units stopped the car behind her.

They stopped the crown vic and the guy in it was a convicted rappist. He had been watching her for three weeks. He confessed that he was going to rape and kill her. He also confessed of doing this three other times.

i hate people.

This is ref*ckingdiculous.

And people wonder why there are folks that live in the mountains and prefer no other human contact…

Also proof that fast-food is bad for you. Bad to eat, and bad employer.

[quote]HardcoreHorn wrote:

Milgram proved nothing to me except that the world is full of weak-minded INDIFFERENT fools. The indifference of good men is the worst form of evil, after all.

I actually just recently wrote an essay refuting the idea of the power of the situation. It could stand to be revised a few times, but it’s not horrible.

[/quote]

Perhaps you might have handle the McDo situation, and that doesnt prove Milgram is wrong. I didnt say 100% fully conducted the experiment, actually 63%. There is a good chance that there were many leaders (your paper) among the remaining 37%.

But I hope that the paper you posted wasnt refuting Milgram. It might be an OK paper at high school level, but doesnt hold up beyond that.

I dont mean to be arsh, but stating a movie and not banging a drunk girl proves nothing [compared to milgram’s research] and doesnt make you a leader (you probably have other qualities that would prove this better, mind you). Also I dont think there is a possibility for everyone to be a natural leader and if we were all leaders, who would we lead?

On the other hand, you did bring a good point. A true leader probably wouldnt have fall for the McDo con and this doesnt go against Milgram’s work. Remember not 100% went all the way in his experiment.

[quote]Devinci wrote:

350V The student doesnt answer any questions now.

450V The last shock.


Where would you stop?

Everybody said that they would stop before the student would feel pain.

Reality: 63% completed the experiment up to 450V!![/quote]

Ultimately 65% of all of the “teachers” punished the “learners” to the maximum 450 volts.

(And here comes the best part… just to show you how people can really be nasty…)

No subject stopped before reaching 300 volts!

In light of this news, it is now clear that the Milgram experiment was poorly designed. With a few minor modifications to the protocol, Milgram could have received a huge number of blowjobs.

[quote]MrChill wrote:

Ultimately 65% of all of the “teachers” punished the “learners” to the maximum 450 volts.

[/quote]

True, that was when he reproduced the experiment and I think 65% is what they use when quoting Milgram.

An other interesting fact stated in my book is that he was also able to up the % to 93% using different authority figures! Unfortunately, it doesnt say if he was able to reproduce it.

Yeah I was pretty much into reading some old uni psychology books (my degree is in a different faculty though) and it started because I had to pass some psychometric tests for a new job!

[quote]larryb wrote:
In light of this news, it is now clear that the Milgram experiment was poorly designed. With a few minor modifications to the protocol, Milgram could have received a huge number of blowjobs.
[/quote]

LOL

That would make a nice thesis project for a PhD candidate!

[quote]MrChill wrote:
Devinci wrote:

350V The student doesnt answer any questions now.

450V The last shock.


Where would you stop?

Everybody said that they would stop before the student would feel pain.

Reality: 63% completed the experiment up to 450V!!

Ultimately 65% of all of the “teachers” punished the “learners” to the maximum 450 volts.

(And here comes the best part… just to show you how people can really be nasty…)

No subject stopped before reaching 300 volts![/quote]

There was definatly a guy who stopped right after the subject told him to cut it out. You can rent a black and white documentary of this from the library, they taped it all.

I don’t think any of the blame should be put on the girl working. Kids are naive about such things and are taught to trust authority. This is really a terrible thing to happen to her. I think the manager and fiance are total boneheads for believing this and the fiance is a total perve for enacting on the situation.

beef

[quote]larryb wrote:
In light of this news, it is now clear that the Milgram experiment was poorly designed. With a few minor modifications to the protocol, Milgram could have received a huge number of blowjobs.
[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Classic!

[quote]Mr ian wrote:
I wonder if she swallowed? [/quote]

he was charged with sodomy

[quote]Devinci wrote:

Perhaps you might have handle the McDo situation, and that doesnt prove Milgram is wrong. I didnt say 100% fully conducted the experiment, actually 63%. There is a good chance that there were many leaders (your paper) among the remaining 37%.[/quote]

Yes, you’re right, that’s why I said Milgram proved that most people are weak-minded. I don’t refute this. I just refute the general conclusion that this phenomenon should be sympathized with, or that it’s ok. That is the vibe I get from Milgram’s work, that we should excuse evil or immoral acts because most of us are just victims to the circumstances.

[quote]
But I hope that the paper you posted wasnt refuting Milgram. It might be an OK paper at high school level, but doesnt hold up beyond that.[/quote]

Hey! That was a college paper, thank you very much! Of course, I’m an engineering major, so much is not expected of my writing.

My paper was meant to express the idea that, although we all CAN be influenced by situational forces to do wrong things, we still all have the potential, and therefore the DUTY, to resist these forces, and the bad behavior therefore should not be tolerated.

[quote]HardcoreHorn wrote:
(…)
I just refute the general conclusion that this phenomenon should be sympathized with, or that it’s ok. That is the vibe I get from Milgram’s work, that we should excuse evil or immoral acts because most of us are just victims to the circumstances.
[/quote]

I agree, obedience does not make one less responsible.

[quote]HardcoreHorn wrote:
Hey! That was a college paper, thank you very much! Of course, I’m an engineering major, so much is not expected of my writing.
[/quote]

Hehe, lets just say you will be much better at this by the time you graduate ;)Actually it is good if it was an english class assignment :wink:

[quote]Devinci wrote:

Hehe, lets just say you will be much better at this by the time you graduate ;)Actually it is good if it was an english class assignment :wink:
[/quote]

Lol. It seems T-Nation is a harsher critic than my teacher. Hey, maybe I should submit my essays here for peer review. It would probably get torn apart, which is a good thing. My teacher would be impressed by the improvement :slight_smile: