[quote]beebuddy wrote:
So in essence just create 2nd class citizens and make it official?
[/quote]
How is the amount of money one requires to do a job creating a second class citizen?
It’s not like people are going in to Mexico and forcing these people across the border to work for less than minimum wage. Last I checked it was voluntary.
And yes, there are jobs that most americans just will not do. Don’t fool yourself.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
I am not anti-McCain, though I strongly dislike the idea of Palin being president, and this year my vote is going to be based completely on who I agree with economically.
[/quote]
This is a fascinating statement to me-- worthy of another thread.
I honestly can’t figure out how people are ‘on the fence’ about these two candidates beyond that they are both politicians who’s only goal is to be President.
I truly believe that if I’m going to subsidize public schools with my (over) taxed paycheck, Economics and History should be taught from Day 1 until the day they graduate.
I don’t want to derail this thread so look for new thread about Obama/McCain Economy
Edit:
New thread: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/mccainobama_and_economy
[quote]rainjack wrote:
How is the amount of money one requires to do a job creating a second class citizen?
[/quote]
I didn’t mean to imply that people that work for low wages are inherently second class. My point was the the underlying assumption behind the idea that some work is beneath Americans is that it is better for a second class.
There are plenty of cases of indentured servitude and slavery btw, though I admit that you are pretty much right on. Most immigrants come here because they want to… I hope.
[quote]
And yes, there are jobs that most americans just will not do. Don’t fool yourself. [/quote]
And as I said, the reason Americans won’t do them is because they don’t pay enough, not because the job is somehow beneath them. I would pick the hell out of some cabbage for 50$ an hour, and if you wouldn’t then congrats because you’re not doing so bad there. If there were no illegal immigrants employers wouldn’t be able to pay so little.
Just to be fair, I love my Mexican brothers and sisters. They are just following the American dream, but the facts speak for themselves.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
And yes, there are jobs that most americans just will not do. Don’t fool yourself.
And as I said, the reason Americans won’t do them is because they don’t pay enough, not because the job is somehow beneath them. I would pick the hell out of some cabbage for 50$ an hour, and if you wouldn’t then congrats because you’re not doing so bad there.[/quote]
You wouldn’t do it for 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
And even if farmers did pay 50 bucks an hour, who would want to pay $15 for a head of cabbage?
The american public will not pay for your labor in the grocery store.
If wages were to go to the extreme in McCain’s example, we would be importing almost all of our food, or finding ways to mechanize the labor force out of the industry. Either way, there would be no $50/hour farm jobs.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
You wouldn’t do it for 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
[/quote]
lol, in the first post I predicted you would say something like that.
[quote]
If wages were to go to the extreme in McCain’s example, we would be importing almost all of our food, or finding ways to mechanize the labor force out of the industry. Either way, there would be no $50/hour farm jobs.[/quote]
I realize that, and the absurdity of it, but it wasn’t ME throwing that number out there. And there IS a point… Illegal labor is helping to keep wages low, and in some cases below minimum wage. That isn’t good.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
And yes, there are jobs that most americans just will not do. Don’t fool yourself.
And as I said, the reason Americans won’t do them is because they don’t pay enough, not because the job is somehow beneath them. I would pick the hell out of some cabbage for 50$ an hour, and if you wouldn’t then congrats because you’re not doing so bad there.
You wouldn’t do it for 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
And even if farmers did pay 50 bucks an hour, who would want to pay $15 for a head of cabbage?
The american public will not pay for your labor in the grocery store.
If wages were to go to the extreme in McCain’s example, we would be importing almost all of our food, or finding ways to mechanize the labor force out of the industry. Either way, there would be no $50/hour farm jobs. [/quote]
As far as who would pay $15 a head for cabbage, any body that did not own garden and that did have $15.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
You wouldn’t do it for 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
lol, in the first post I predicted you would say something like that.
If wages were to go to the extreme in McCain’s example, we would be importing almost all of our food, or finding ways to mechanize the labor force out of the industry. Either way, there would be no $50/hour farm jobs.
I realize that, and the absurdity of it, but it wasn’t ME throwing that number out there. And there IS a point… Illegal labor is helping to keep wages low, and in some cases below minimum wage. That isn’t good.[/quote]
Illegal labor is hurting from the middle class down.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
Anyone know if this was taken completely out of context, or what context it was in? Or is McCain actually batshit crazy to think I wouldn’t pick cabbage for 50$ an hour?
Inb4 Rainjack says cabbage picking would be too hard for me.[/quote]
He is fuking batshit , where do I sign up , Il will bring help
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
rainjack wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
And yes, there are jobs that most americans just will not do. Don’t fool yourself.
And as I said, the reason Americans won’t do them is because they don’t pay enough, not because the job is somehow beneath them. I would pick the hell out of some cabbage for 50$ an hour, and if you wouldn’t then congrats because you’re not doing so bad there.
You wouldn’t do it for 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
And even if farmers did pay 50 bucks an hour, who would want to pay $15 for a head of cabbage?
The american public will not pay for your labor in the grocery store.
If wages were to go to the extreme in McCain’s example, we would be importing almost all of our food, or finding ways to mechanize the labor force out of the industry. Either way, there would be no $50/hour farm jobs.
As far as who would pay $15 a head for cabbage, any body that did not own garden and that did have $15.[/quote]
Whiff!
Strike one.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
You wouldn’t do it for 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
lol, in the first post I predicted you would say something like that.
If wages were to go to the extreme in McCain’s example, we would be importing almost all of our food, or finding ways to mechanize the labor force out of the industry. Either way, there would be no $50/hour farm jobs.
I realize that, and the absurdity of it, but it wasn’t ME throwing that number out there. And there IS a point… Illegal labor is helping to keep wages low, and in some cases below minimum wage. That isn’t good.
Illegal labor is hurting from the middle class down.
[/quote]
Proof?
Strike 2.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
Anyone know if this was taken completely out of context, or what context it was in? Or is McCain actually batshit crazy to think I wouldn’t pick cabbage for 50$ an hour?
Inb4 Rainjack says cabbage picking would be too hard for me.
He is fuking batshit , where do I sign up , Il will bring help
[/quote]
Total inability to string together a coherent thought.
That would be strike 3.
Thanks for playing.
Now shut the fuck up, and grab your coloring book - and try to stay in the lines this time.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
You wouldn’t do it for 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
lol, in the first post I predicted you would say something like that.
If wages were to go to the extreme in McCain’s example, we would be importing almost all of our food, or finding ways to mechanize the labor force out of the industry. Either way, there would be no $50/hour farm jobs.
I realize that, and the absurdity of it, but it wasn’t ME throwing that number out there. And there IS a point… Illegal labor is helping to keep wages low, and in some cases below minimum wage. That isn’t good.
Illegal labor is hurting from the middle class down.
Proof?
Strike 2.
[/quote]
Common sense, proof would require my ability to arrest. What is this strike 2 shit .If you wanted to discuss the situation I would be totally up for that but I am not wasting my breath for an irrational argument.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
rainjack wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
You wouldn’t do it for 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
lol, in the first post I predicted you would say something like that.
If wages were to go to the extreme in McCain’s example, we would be importing almost all of our food, or finding ways to mechanize the labor force out of the industry. Either way, there would be no $50/hour farm jobs.
I realize that, and the absurdity of it, but it wasn’t ME throwing that number out there. And there IS a point… Illegal labor is helping to keep wages low, and in some cases below minimum wage. That isn’t good.
Illegal labor is hurting from the middle class down.
Proof?
Strike 2.
Common sense, proof would require my ability to arrest. What is this strike 2 shit .If you wanted to discuss the situation I would be totally up for that but I am not wasting my breath for an irrational argument.
[/quote]
Then you would fucking suffocate because you have not typed a single rational thought.
Now - shut up and color.