[quote]SteelyD wrote:
First, if you have even considered voting for Obama, you are nowhere near libertarian. Perhaps you are socially liberal, but that’s a far cry from libertarian.
When you start talking about ‘the rich’, ‘the poor’ and pandering to one at the expense of the other, you are pitting Americans against each other based on their class. It’s not much different than racism. Why should I be punished because I’ve worked harder than other folks and may have accumulated wealth. That’s not promoting ‘equality’. ‘Equality’ is flat taxing – EVERYBODY pays the same percentage. Even then ‘the Rich’ pay more in real dollars than ‘the Poor’, but it’s scaled fairly. Why is income of > $200k rich?
The tax money ‘from the top’ has always paid the bills. As it stands, the top 20% of earners pay 80% of the taxes. When is enough enough?
re: Marxism – you can not consider ‘intentions’. “Good intentions pave the road to Hell”. The most vile Dictators have the best of intentions for themselves and some select others. “Intent” and “Result” are two completely different things. Universal Government-run Healthcare is a nice ‘intent’, but, um, no thank you. Social Security is a nice ‘intent’-- it’s a disaster.
To be considered a marxist would one have to intentionally be trying to create class warfare as opposed to one that masks as marxism when it’s really just a plan to help the economy long term?
To be considered antisocial, would one have to intentionally be antisocial? Marxism is Marxism. Pitting one class against the other is Marxism.
Listen to Obama’s spiritual mentors:
and political mentors (look up Frank Marshall Davis). Social engineering (ie social programs) is a continuum from socialism to structural marxism (ie Leftist dictatorships a la stalin and castro)
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I haven’t considered voting Obama, I know what Libertarian is. Check out the “3rd party candidates” thread if you want my views. I was just playing devils advocate for clarification into why you thought the way you did.
By refuting your claims I figured I’d give a “logical” thought out view and see if it trips you up. Like I said in my post it’s not a positive system that he’s proposing.
I like grasping what I can in an argument and squeezing out as much information as I can until I truly believe that the person making it know what the hell they are talking about.
To go on with the game:
Are you really eliminating classes by manipulating the taxes with how Obama wants to tax the people? In other words at what line would you draw between where we are now to truly Marxist economy? Is Obama too far, are we too far already, or is Obama just heading towards too far?
If you ask me, if you are going to call Obama too far, we have gone too far already.
Why not a flat tax and give more tax breaks and incentives for people to invest in science, technology, and the corporation?
Also what would an educated free market capitalist’s views be on the growing gap between poverty and the rich in this country?
I’ll debate nonstop, I just find it interesting.
FWIW I train the CEO of a fairly successful NASDAQ traded company (I know patting my own back) and we had a conversation today about tax rates to his business. If this doesn’t scream broken system what does?
US 40%
UK 30%
CAN 30%
Hong Kong 15%
Which country does he want to report profit to?
That’s a no brainer… more money leaving this country.
He’d love his business to own more property and invest in molding plants… but he just can’t afford it.