McCain and Equal Pay?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Its equal pay FOR EQUAL JOBS.

(That’s the debate. I just wanted to clarify).

Mufasa

Yes. So then logically I should be able to walk into a Target and pay the same price for the exact same product in Wal-Mart.

Equal pay for a PERFECTLY equal job. Ceteris Peribus. That means at the same company in the same place in the same building with the same boss with the same personality ect ect only difference being gender.

Happy?

There is no equality. Everyone is different and brings different values and productivity to their job. People should be free to compete for whatever wage they can get. The government has no business deciding who should get payed what for any reason. If you argue for equal pay for labor then you also must argue for equal pay for equal goods and services – otherwise your argument is inconsistent.

Prices and wages are the same exact thing. Not only that, the fallacy of equal pay would make you also argue in favor of equal stock-prices too. Coke and Pepsi both make colas so they should also have equal stock prices.

Good God - you are about a stupid motherfucker.

The argument here is about sex discrimination. Unless you can prove that the differentiation in goods offered for retail sale - hell - even wholesale are based strictly on the customer’s sex, you have about zero argument.

Can you do that?

Then shut the fuck up and go preach your butt-cheese coated tripe somewhere else.
[/quote]

Your first mistake is assuming I actually cared enough to read the cited material or wanted to engage a discussion about gender equality. I doesn’t matter what made up reasons there are for equal pay. Prices are prices. I am just pointing out the correct, logical argument one needs to make in order to be consistent with it.

Besides, women get payed less because they are less productive and less intellectually sophisticated, generally speaking.

I am confused though: Are you saying you want government to intervene in prices and create equality for the sexes?

22

[quote]streamline wrote:
Exactly what planet are you from. Equal pay is an individual business practice. Equal pay is within your own company. Not that of the competition. Everyone in a given company should make the exact same pay as every other employee doing the same job discription. You are not entitled to the same pay as someone working for a different company.[/quote]

Why sould I be “entitled” to the same pay as a co-worker doing the same job? Should athletes playing on the same team get paid the same?

Fortunately, businesses are ruled by the same laws of supply and demand for labor that they are for the goods and services they provide. If I feel that I am not getting paid what I am worth I can leave and go compete somewhere else or learn a new trade.

23

[quote]streamline wrote:
Exactly what planet are you from. Equal pay is an individual business practice. Equal pay is within your own company. Not that of the competition. Everyone in a given company should make the exact same pay as every other employee doing the same job discription. You are not entitled to the same pay as someone working for a different company.[/quote]

Not true.

But, ceteris peribus, if the only thing different between two employees is gender, they should be making the same wage.

24

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why sould I be “entitled” to the same pay as a co-worker doing the same job? Should athletes playing on the same team get paid the same?

Fortunately, businesses are ruled by the same laws of supply and demand for labor that they are for the goods and services they provide. If I feel that I am not getting paid what I am worth I can leave and go compete somewhere else or learn a new trade.[/quote]

Last time I’m saying this:

CETERIS FUCKING PERIBUS.

25

Give up beowolf. This is definitely one of the most loopy, pathetic arguments I’ve ever heard.

26

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
streamline wrote:
Exactly what planet are you from. Equal pay is an individual business practice. Equal pay is within your own company. Not that of the competition. Everyone in a given company should make the exact same pay as every other employee doing the same job discription. You are not entitled to the same pay as someone working for a different company.

Not true.

But, ceteris peribus, if the only thing different between two employees is gender, they should be making the same wage.[/quote]

How could you ever evaluate this? If a company decides to pay women, or blacks, or fat people less than skinny white guys, let them. It is only hurting them and helping their competition. Those that pay for top talent regardless of gender, race, religion, or shoe size will ultimately be more competitive.

27

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why sould I be “entitled” to the same pay as a co-worker doing the same job? Should athletes playing on the same team get paid the same?

Fortunately, businesses are ruled by the same laws of supply and demand for labor that they are for the goods and services they provide. If I feel that I am not getting paid what I am worth I can leave and go compete somewhere else or learn a new trade.

Last time I’m saying this:

CETERIS FUCKING PERIBUS.[/quote]

Latin phrases cannot stop the laws of economics.

28

It’s “ceteris paribus”, Beowulf.

29

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Lifticus’ argumentation is sound.
If you live in a world where man and woman are perfectly equal and you feel the need to enforce equal pay, you should also enforce that a company workforce is compromised of men & women in a 1:1 ratio.
[/quote]

and what happens when its a job that there is a shortage of women that are qualified.not because they are women but simply because they cant do the job.

do you then hire women that are underqualified that will do a half assed job and pay them the same as the male counterparts that are taking up the slack?
now that can be any demographic.

I dont see that as being any different than the affermitave action or the equal oppertunity they have now.
and I dont see that as being fair.

I say equal pay for an equal job done if great.
if you are as productive as your counterparts then you should be paid accordingly.
if you dont do the same job just as well then you dont get paid the same.
and face it male or female and no mater what race there are qualified and underqualified candidates.
if most of the qualified ones in your area happens to more one demographic than another then oh well it happens

30

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
It’s “ceteris paribus”, Beowulf.

[/quote]

Well now I’m just embarrassed <_<

31

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
streamline wrote:
Exactly what planet are you from. Equal pay is an individual business practice. Equal pay is within your own company. Not that of the competition. Everyone in a given company should make the exact same pay as every other employee doing the same job discription. You are not entitled to the same pay as someone working for a different company.

Not true.

But, ceteris peribus, if the only thing different between two employees is gender, they should be making the same wage.

How could you ever evaluate this? If a company decides to pay women, or blacks, or fat people less than skinny white guys, let them. It is only hurting them and helping their competition. Those that pay for top talent regardless of gender, race, religion, or shoe size will ultimately be more competitive. [/quote]

I pretty much agree. So… yeah.

32

Girls get more money for porrno than guys do. In straight porno that is.

33

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Its equal pay FOR EQUAL JOBS.

(That’s the debate. I just wanted to clarify).

Mufasa

Yes. So then logically I should be able to walk into a Target and pay the same price for the exact same product in Wal-Mart.

Equal pay for a PERFECTLY equal job. Ceteris Peribus. That means at the same company in the same place in the same building with the same boss with the same personality ect ect only difference being gender.

Happy?

There is no equality. Everyone is different and brings different values and productivity to their job. People should be free to compete for whatever wage they can get. The government has no business deciding who should get payed what for any reason.

If you argue for equal pay for labor then you also must argue for equal pay for equal goods and services – otherwise your argument is inconsistent.

Prices and wages are the same exact thing. Not only that, the fallacy of equal pay would make you also argue in favor of equal stock-prices too. Coke and Pepsi both make colas so they should also have equal stock prices.[/quote]

Please. Every individual brings unique aspects to the table. That doesn’t change the fact that women on average make roughly 70% of what men do in the same category of job within companies and across industries. Your analogy is totally innappropriate. You should be smart enough to realize why.

34

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Its equal pay FOR EQUAL JOBS.

(That’s the debate. I just wanted to clarify).

Mufasa

Yes. So then logically I should be able to walk into a Target and pay the same price for the exact same product in Wal-Mart.

Equal pay for a PERFECTLY equal job. Ceteris Peribus. That means at the same company in the same place in the same building with the same boss with the same personality ect ect only difference being gender.

Happy?

Don’t encourage him. Now he’s going to go and start making up new meanings to words so that he will be right.

[/quote]

On this issue he is right and you are wrong.

Happy now?

Because yes, wages are prices.

35

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Its equal pay FOR EQUAL JOBS.

(That’s the debate. I just wanted to clarify).

Mufasa

Yes. So then logically I should be able to walk into a Target and pay the same price for the exact same product in Wal-Mart.

Equal pay for a PERFECTLY equal job. Ceteris Peribus. That means at the same company in the same place in the same building with the same boss with the same personality ect ect only difference being gender.

Happy?

There is no equality. Everyone is different and brings different values and productivity to their job. People should be free to compete for whatever wage they can get. The government has no business deciding who should get payed what for any reason.

If you argue for equal pay for labor then you also must argue for equal pay for equal goods and services – otherwise your argument is inconsistent.

Prices and wages are the same exact thing. Not only that, the fallacy of equal pay would make you also argue in favor of equal stock-prices too. Coke and Pepsi both make colas so they should also have equal stock prices.

Please. Every individual brings unique aspects to the table. That doesn’t change the fact that women on average make roughly 70% of what men do in the same category of job within companies and across industries. Your analogy is totally innappropriate. You should be smart enough to realize why.[/quote]

It appears that I also lack the intelligence to find the flaw in his argument.

Please enlighten me.

Unless of course inappropriate means it rubs you the wrong way.

36

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why sould I be “entitled” to the same pay as a co-worker doing the same job? Should athletes playing on the same team get paid the same?

Fortunately, businesses are ruled by the same laws of supply and demand for labor that they are for the goods and services they provide. If I feel that I am not getting paid what I am worth I can leave and go compete somewhere else or learn a new trade.

Last time I’m saying this:

CETERIS FUCKING PERIBUS.[/quote]

Which is impossible in the real world, so in the dream world where you can fix every other variable you may have a point?

37

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Give up beowolf. This is definitely one of the most loopy, pathetic arguments I’ve ever heard.

[/quote]

There is very little that annoys me so much as a condescending an demeaning attitude towards an argument or poster, that just clearly shows the complete lack of understanding on the part of the poster who makes it.

38

[quote]orion wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Its equal pay FOR EQUAL JOBS.

(That’s the debate. I just wanted to clarify).

Mufasa

Yes. So then logically I should be able to walk into a Target and pay the same price for the exact same product in Wal-Mart.

Equal pay for a PERFECTLY equal job. Ceteris Peribus. That means at the same company in the same place in the same building with the same boss with the same personality ect ect only difference being gender.

Happy?

There is no equality. Everyone is different and brings different values and productivity to their job. People should be free to compete for whatever wage they can get.

The government has no business deciding who should get payed what for any reason. If you argue for equal pay for labor then you also must argue for equal pay for equal goods and services – otherwise your argument is inconsistent.

Prices and wages are the same exact thing. Not only that, the fallacy of equal pay would make you also argue in favor of equal stock-prices too. Coke and Pepsi both make colas so they should also have equal stock prices.

Please. Every individual brings unique aspects to the table. That doesn’t change the fact that women on average make roughly 70% of what men do in the same category of job within companies and across industries. Your analogy is totally innappropriate. You should be smart enough to realize why.

It appears that I also lack the intelligence to find the flaw in his argument.

Please enlighten me.

[/quote]

Coca Cola and Pepsi are different formulas. They taste different. The difference in stock price is a result in popularity fueled by this taste difference.

As well as briliant advertising that has led people to prefer coke. There is no justification for women in the same position to be paid 30% less than men beyond corporate america’s broad policies to a degree that this group has no bargaining power.

All evidence shows that women are not 70% as competent, do not relate to clients only 70% as well, and are not only 70% as dependable. The analogy is not apt because while there may be individual differences between women and men and among them.

But they don’t come close to accounting for the broadscale difference in pay. By contrast, the difference in the stock price of coke and pepsi is fueled entirely by market factors.

39

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Its equal pay FOR EQUAL JOBS.

(That’s the debate. I just wanted to clarify).

Mufasa

Yes. So then logically I should be able to walk into a Target and pay the same price for the exact same product in Wal-Mart.

Equal pay for a PERFECTLY equal job. Ceteris Peribus. That means at the same company in the same place in the same building with the same boss with the same personality ect ect only difference being gender.

Happy?

There is no equality. Everyone is different and brings different values and productivity to their job. People should be free to compete for whatever wage they can get. The government has no business deciding who should get payed what for any reason.

If you argue for equal pay for labor then you also must argue for equal pay for equal goods and services – otherwise your argument is inconsistent.

Prices and wages are the same exact thing. Not only that, the fallacy of equal pay would make you also argue in favor of equal stock-prices too. Coke and Pepsi both make colas so they should also have equal stock prices.

Please. Every individual brings unique aspects to the table. That doesn’t change the fact that women on average make roughly 70% of what men do in the same category of job within companies and across industries. Your analogy is totally innappropriate. You should be smart enough to realize why.[/quote]

And wtf does that even mean?

Employees are not payed for what they bring to the table but for every job relevant thing they can contribute.

So, if women earn less because they get children, work less and don´t do the dangerous and dirty jobs they cannot make up for it by being able to recite Shakespeare.

Noone fucking cares or pays extra for it.

40

[quote]orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Its equal pay FOR EQUAL JOBS.

(That’s the debate. I just wanted to clarify).

Mufasa

Yes. So then logically I should be able to walk into a Target and pay the same price for the exact same product in Wal-Mart.

Equal pay for a PERFECTLY equal job. Ceteris Peribus. That means at the same company in the same place in the same building with the same boss with the same personality ect ect only difference being gender.

Happy?

Don’t encourage him. Now he’s going to go and start making up new meanings to words so that he will be right.

On this issue he is right and you are wrong.

Happy now?

Because yes, wages are prices.

[/quote]

Wages are not prices. Supply and demand affect prices in a way it does not affect wages when there is a near-universal inequitable wage practice in relation to a particular group. A company tries to raise prices too much, people will go to competitors or do without the product.

But people won’t do without jobs. And there’s little bargaining power to force a wage increase for women when nearly all companies adopt the same practices.