T Nation

Mayweather vs Pacquiao


#1

Well, this fight is two weeks away and based on my limited knowledge, probably the richest prize fight in history. IMHO, Mayweather's defensive skills will neutralize Pacman's aggression.

Who you got?


#2

[quote]idaho wrote:
Well, this fight is two weeks away and based on my limited knowledge, probably the richest prize fight in history. IMHO, Mayweather’s defensive skills will neutralize Pacman’s aggression.

Who you got? [/quote]

Mayweather all day soul brotha. I hate him, but skills pay the bills. Dude might even stop him…


#3

I would love it if Pac-Man won.

But he won’t.

And that makes me REALLY REALLY SAD.


#4

Im going finest performance of floyds career. cometh the hour cometh the man. I think late tko.


#5

Yeah, everything is shaping up to look like a dominant performance by mayweather. Before I was just mildly interested in a relieved “oh thats finally happening” fashion, now I’m actually getting excited.

He’s poached Pacquiao’s long time S&C coach Alex Ariza and by all reports he’s being hunting sparring partners in the gym down aggressively and trying to knock them out. I only saw a snippet of sparring sessions but god damn, when mayweather isn’t just pot shotting, its a thing of beauty. He’s clearly not babying his hands anymore.

I’m thinking Mayweather is going for broke on this fight, he will probably announce his retirement immediately after. This fight will be the legacy defining fight, I think he wants to make sure there are no “what if, but, should have, could have” sycophants left to speak.


#6

I wish the smart money wasn’t on Mayweather, but of course it is. However, I’m pretty sure that the die hard Pacquiao fans will be joined by fence sitters and non fans to support Pacman. Win or lose Manila is going to be a MESS on the morning of May 3rd.


#7

Smart money is on Mayweather, and I see no reason Manny should win this. Unfortunately. Because I really, really like him.

This fight does not interest me at all any more. Years ago, when they were both in their prime, I drooled over the thought of this fight. But they’re both past prime and it seems that Pacman has not aged as gracefully (in the ring that is) as Floyd. There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.


#8

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

good god i hate these fucking comments.

you really are an ignorant moron if you believe the above.


#9

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

good god i hate these fucking comments.

you really are an ignorant moron if you believe the above.[/quote]

You are as perceptive as you are civil.


#10

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Smart money is on Mayweather, and I see no reason Manny should win this. Unfortunately. Because I really, really like him.

This fight does not interest me at all any more. Years ago, when they were both in their prime, I drooled over the thought of this fight. But they’re both past prime and it seems that Pacman has not aged as gracefully (in the ring that is) as Floyd. There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

Agreed.

It will be just like Sugar Ray beating Hagler. Yea, everyone knows who got the W … but everyone also knows that Leonard waited until after the Mugabi fight to sign that deal because he saw that Marvin had slowed down just enough.

I’ll watch it, because they’re still miles ahead of their counterparts right now and remain the best boxing has to offer, but I agree that the true window for this fight was five years ago.


#11

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

good god i hate these fucking comments.

you really are an ignorant moron if you believe the above.[/quote]

A lot of us feel this way. This fight is awesome for the casual fan and it’s good for boxing, but for the hardcore boxing crowd, these two guys are well past their prime and the “moment” has gone.

I can’t understand why anyone would want to see two guys in the downsides of their careers versus at their pinnacle … but to each his own.


#12

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

good god i hate these fucking comments.

you really are an ignorant moron if you believe the above.[/quote]

A lot of us feel this way. This fight is awesome for the casual fan and it’s good for boxing, but for the hardcore boxing crowd, these two guys are well past their prime and the “moment” has gone.

I can’t understand why anyone would want to see two guys in the downsides of their careers versus at their pinnacle … but to each his own. [/quote]

what i am STRONGLY disagreeing with is floyd “dodging this fight his whole career” and waiting “out the rust.”

i agree it would have been better 5 years ago. but in 2010 floyd would have won and in 2015 he is going to.


#13

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

good god i hate these fucking comments.

you really are an ignorant moron if you believe the above.[/quote]

You are as perceptive as you are civil.[/quote]

i just have zero time with the angle of floyd “dodging” or “running scared” etc.

it immediately illustrates your knowledge of the sport in general as well as the fighter(s) involved.


#14

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

good god i hate these fucking comments.

you really are an ignorant moron if you believe the above.[/quote]

You are as perceptive as you are civil.[/quote]

i just have zero time with the angle of floyd “dodging” or “running scared” etc.

it immediately illustrates your knowledge of the sport in general as well as the fighter(s) involved.
[/quote]

It doesn’t at all. You’re just making blustery generalizations … and Aragorn isn’t “ignorant” of anything. I’ve read his posts for many years and he’s not a bullshitter.

That being said, none of us know exactly why this fight took so long to make. None of us know why he fought Sharmba Mitchell instead of Shane Mosley years ago, or why he took on Ricky Hatton but wanted no part of Margarito or Cotto or Paul Williams years ago.

Only he knows these things. And to pretend that Aragorn is wrong, when you are, in reality, just as ignorant when it comes to Floyd Mayweather’s business strategy or his mindset going into fights, is ridiculous.


#15

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Smart money is on Mayweather, and I see no reason Manny should win this. Unfortunately. Because I really, really like him.

This fight does not interest me at all any more. Years ago, when they were both in their prime, I drooled over the thought of this fight. But they’re both past prime and it seems that Pacman has not aged as gracefully (in the ring that is) as Floyd. There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

Agreed.

It will be just like Sugar Ray beating Hagler. Yea, everyone knows who got the W … but everyone also knows that Leonard waited until after the Mugabi fight to sign that deal because he saw that Marvin had slowed down just enough.

I’ll watch it, because they’re still miles ahead of their counterparts right now and remain the best boxing has to offer, but I agree that the true window for this fight was five years ago. [/quote]

The comparison with Sugar Ray is dead on (in my ignorant opinion of course). Which sucks, because both Sugar and Hagler were two of my absolute favorites.

You’re right about them being miles ahead of anybody else, and like you I will end up watching this because of that, but it will always remain a “what if” for me.


#16

cant agree more with it being 5+ years too late.

I am also curious is we are able to see all the fine print-

drug testing
rehydration limitations on fight night
god knows what else.

there are a TON of logistics on a fight like this.
that take alot of time to sort out I can explain in a second.

Mayweather- picked the timing of this fight and certainly in his favor.

from working in sports broadcast I can tell you is a morass
of TV politics to say the least
Pac is in contract HBO
Mayweather is with Showtime- which is owned by CBS
thats allot of networks and egos- and legal shit to sort.
Im not even going to discuss agents manager - promotors etc.

just on the broadcast
thats more then two camps- who want to be head chef.
they want to decide - everything-
where it airs , how the PPV is split
who does production , announcers etc.
its allot of shit to sort.
particularly for a one off- they want it to be under their banner.


#17

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
There will always be a “what if” component to this for me now, because Mayweather dodged the damn fight his whole career.

I view it more or less as a scavenger meal now—Floyd simply waits out the rust all these years and only NOW goes for the fight because he senses his advantage. Good for his checking account? Maybe. Shitty for a quality fight and a real legacy defining moment IMHO. A legacy defining fight entails them both signing on at the top of their game.[/quote]

good god i hate these fucking comments.

you really are an ignorant moron if you believe the above.[/quote]

You are as perceptive as you are civil.[/quote]

i just have zero time with the angle of floyd “dodging” or “running scared” etc.

it immediately illustrates your knowledge of the sport in general as well as the fighter(s) involved.
[/quote]

It doesn’t at all. You’re just making blustery generalizations … and Aragorn isn’t “ignorant” of anything. I’ve read his posts for many years and he’s not a bullshitter.

That being said, none of us know exactly why this fight took so long to make. None of us know why he fought Sharmba Mitchell instead of Shane Mosley years ago, or why he took on Ricky Hatton but wanted no part of Margarito or Cotto or Paul Williams years ago.

Only he knows these things. And to pretend that Aragorn is wrong, when you are, in reality, just as ignorant when it comes to Floyd Mayweather’s business strategy or his mindset going into fights, is ridiculous.[/quote]

to say the fight has not taken place simply because floyd has been “dodging” it due to fear of losing is simply laughable, brotard science has listed just some of the reasons for possible delays.

by a considerable distance the least likely reason for a delay is floyd simply “dodging” the fight, when he is clearly superior and will win. floyd has never even been put down in going on 20 years now never mind come close to losing. pacman wont even come close on may 2nd.

so many armchair experts want to focus on things like floyd “dodging” “being boring” etc and totally ignoring the fact he has now nearly fought for 20 years and is still unbeaten having dominated a number of hall of famers, world champions, and top level pros in multiple weight classes.

he is going to school paquiao and the complaints will be the fight was too late again ignoring the fact both are past their prime years (not just one of them) and floyd is 2 years older than pacman anyway.

  • aragorn sorry for the insults

#18

I’m going to put it out there and say that, if you look at how Floyd has fallen off in recent fights, and how he struggled against Maidana (who in some ways fights like a MUCH less experienced and effective version of Pacquiao), this is not the total shutout for Mayweather that most seem to think it is. I’ll put myself on the line here and say that it is not a big stretch for me to see Pacquiao beating him, and that the two are close to evenly matched given that styles can play as much role in the outcome of a fight as skill.

Mayweather does not like southpaws, as he loves to use (overuse, perhaps, in as far as you can criticise something he’s made very effective) that lead right hand. If Pacquiao can stay on the outside, and keep a high work rate, I can see this going his way. Here’s why:

Pacquiao is one of the most effective fighters I’ve seen in a very long time when it comes to punching from odd angles. He’s an awkward little fucker and awkward little fuckers cause problems for defenses that do better against technically skilled (read reasonably orthodox lines of attack) fighters.

Punch output: Mayweather throws 30-35 punches/round and averages a 50% connect rate (18 punches/round). Pacquiao throws c.70 punches/round and averages a 43% connect rate (30ish punches/round)

Bare in mind Maidana landed at a rate of about 25% in his fight against Mayweather - and Maidana faded and lacked Pacquiao’s experience, I can’t see the former happening here.

Pacquiao is also hit something like 8-10% less than the weight class average. Not exactly a defensive slouch himself.

I read a great article on this the other day, and I’ll see if I can dig it up. I was on the fence, but following it, I’ll nail my colours to the mast and say I reckon Pacquiao will edge the fight.


#19

[quote]TheCB wrote:
to say the fight has not taken place simply because floyd has been “dodging” it due to fear of losing is simply laughable, brotard science has listed just some of the reasons for possible delays.

by a considerable distance the least likely reason for a delay is floyd simply “dodging” the fight, when he is clearly superior and will win. floyd has never even been put down in going on 20 years now never mind come close to losing. pacman wont even come close on may 2nd.

so many armchair experts want to focus on things like floyd “dodging” “being boring” etc and totally ignoring the fact he has now nearly fought for 20 years and is still unbeaten having dominated a number of hall of famers, world champions, and top level pros in multiple weight classes.

he is going to school paquiao and the complaints will be the fight was too late again ignoring the fact both are past their prime years (not just one of them) and floyd is 2 years older than pacman anyway.

  • aragorn sorry for the insults
    [/quote]

I don’t think anyone here is disagreeing with you. I certainly don’t. In their primes I think he whips Pacquaio convincingly. Now he’s slowed down a bit, and I think that him being less of a moving target gives Pac a little more of a shot … but not much.

I agree with you about the armchair experts too. I despise Floyd Mayweather the man but am continually amazed by Floyd Mayweather the boxer - I’ve really had to go back and change where he stands on my all-time list since the Shane Mosley/Miguel Cotto/Canelo Alvarez/Marcos Maidana stretch.

All of those, ESPECIALLY the demolition of Shane and the utter schooling of Alvarez, brought my appreciation of his boxing skills to a whole nother level. And as I’ve learned to box myself, I’m beginning to realize the simple, brutal effectiveness of what he does, and how fast his mind is moving in the ring to be able to figure out an opponent’s style, counter it, and take over the fight all inside 36 minutes. It’s pretty remarkable.

I still don’t have him as top 20, but maybe top 25, definitely top 50 all time.

Also, just realize that NOBODY here acts like what you’re describing … this isn’t Sherdog or the East Side Boxing forums. Guys here know their shit and are very well-read and sensible on combat sports.


#20

I also agree that the most likely outcome will have Floyd’s hand raised at the conclusion of the fight.

I also agree with others that while this fight is still interesting, it would have been better 5 years ago when both were in their primes and I also agree that Mayweather dodged this fight up to this point. My main evidence for this hypothesis is all the crap that Mayweather and his camp pulled a while back regarding demanding all sorts of nonesensical drug tests and stipulations on Floyd (which far exceeded the established practices regarding drug testing used by boxing and the Athletic Commissions). He wanted very much to throw up a bunch of red tape for Manny to jump through to slow down the process of making this fight happen. Had Floyd been asking for and wanting this fight for the past few years (without any extra hoops for Manny to jump through), but for whatever reason the fight just didn’t happen, then sure I might not be as suspicious, but that’s not what happened.

Floyd is a smart fighter (and an even smarter businessman), and smart fighters like smart predators know not to attack their prey where they are strongest or when they are at their best. While his pride might have wanted to fight Manny several years ago, his head knew that waiting till the time was right to pounce was the better course of action for his legacy. I personally have no problem with this though as he rightfully holds the belt, is arguably the best pound for pound boxer currently in the World, and his course of action may very well wind up resulting in an unbeaten record with some great names on his list of wins. And it’s his damn head on the line, not any of the fans’ who would have liked to see him fight a prime Oscar, Manny, or arguably Shane.

Agree or disagree of you want; this is purely speculation and opinion.