I am planning on using Anavar in the distant future and I have been looking around to see what to stack with it to get the most out of it. I have read a lot of things saying to stack it with everything from test, anadrol, tren, winni, etc. I am planning to use it purely for the strength gain, what do you guys think would be best from that aspect?
[quote]Vatic wrote:
I am planning on using Anavar in the distant future and I have been looking around to see what to stack with it to get the most out of it. I have read a lot of things saying to stack it with everything from test, anadrol, tren, winni, etc. I am planning to use it purely for the strength gain, what do you guys think would be best from that aspect?[/quote]
Id go with Tbol or Masterone prop. Both give good strength gains and I believe they would both give some class I/II synergy though I dont know to what extent.
Test suspension, anadrol, and tren. That should do it. Seriously, are you bulking,cutting, powerlifting? Knowing nothing of you, I would say a test for all-around and add the anavar for extra strength without extra sides.
Im with t-bol… The more I read up on it the more I fall in love with the substance. Yes there were a few deaths reported with it way back when but from what I can tell that was due to not only large doses but also very, very long cycle durations with minimal liver support.
6 week cycle with a shit tonne of liver support should be right on the money from what Ive read.
[quote]benmoore wrote:
Im with t-bol… The more I read up on it the more I fall in love with the substance. Yes there were a few deaths reported with it way back when but from what I can tell that was due to not only large doses but also very, very long cycle durations with minimal liver support.
6 week cycle with a shit tonne of liver support should be right on the money from what Ive read.[/quote]
I admit I don’t know much about tbol other than what people say about it in their posts but the fact that it is reported to be responsible for causing death is enough for me to stay away from it. What other steroids have ever been the direct cause of a death?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Im with t-bol… The more I read up on it the more I fall in love with the substance. Yes there were a few deaths reported with it way back when but from what I can tell that was due to not only large doses but also very, very long cycle durations with minimal liver support.
6 week cycle with a shit tonne of liver support should be right on the money from what Ive read.
I admit I don’t know much about tbol other than what people say about it in their posts but the fact that it is reported to be responsible for causing death is enough for me to stay away from it. What other steroids have ever been the direct cause of a death? [/quote]
It was administered to a massive number of athletes for a VERY long time - athletes as young as ten years old were reportedly given it… without anything at all in the way of liver protection.
Run nearly any 17aa oral for even 12 weeks at a moderate dose without liver protection and youre asking for trouble.
But hey thats only my personal research… Im no where near as experienced or as knowledgeable as the bulk of the posters on this forum.
I found oxandrolone plus Anadrol effective, but not oxandrolone alone (not much.)
This was with same total milligrams: 150 mg/day either of oxandrolone alone, or divided 75/75 with Anadrol.
These days I’d make sure to have an estrogen source, for example HCG 100 IU/day. Back then I was not aware of that.
I would expect, but did not try, that Dianabol 50 mg/day would also be a completely satisfactory addition to oxandrolone. That would also eliminate the need for HCG as a supplemental estrogen source (via being a supplemental testosterone source.)
An interesting thing is that none of the injectables are Class II’s, other than testosterone having mixed activity. Testosterone at 750 mg/week or more would certainly also be a satisfactory addition to oxandrolone. I’d recommend an AI with it.
That said, oxandrolone won’t do anything that an injectable Class I won’t do. And it is a more expensive and harder-on-the-liver way of achieving the same purpose. Unless the shorter half-life is desired for some reason, I don’t see the point. (Other than being a pussy and trying to avoid the scary ol’ needles.)
On “liver support” with Oral Turinabol or anything else: I don’t think there’s any evidence that any “liver support” does anything against hepatic cholestasis.
Not that milk thistle isn’t a good thing anyway. I take it year round for reasons having nothing to do with anabolic steroids, namely general health. But I know of no reason or evidence it would reduce risk of hepatic cholestasis.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
On “liver support” with Oral Turinabol or anything else: I don’t think there’s any evidence that any “liver support” does anything against hepatic cholestasis.
Not that milk thistle isn’t a good thing anyway. I take it year round for reasons having nothing to do with anabolic steroids, namely general health. But I know of no reason or evidence it would reduce risk of hepatic cholestasis.[/quote]
Did some more research - you are right with regards to being no evidence that any liver support sups will ward off hepatic cholestasis.
also…
"Estradiol also has carcinogenic metabolites, and a liver problem sometimes associated with AAS use, hepatic cholestasis, is caused not by androgen but by an estrogen metabolite. "
If it is something that is a risk with other AAS… why would it be worse with turinabol.
Would a potent AI not be enough whilst on cycle to ward off this condition if it is caused by estrogen metabolites?
Get rid of the Anavar and take either drol or dbol, maybe?
The estrogen metabolite theory is either simply not correct or not complete.
It simply isn’t the case that non-aromatizing orals are immune from the problem.
If the theory were true, Oral-Turinabol, Anadrol, and oxandrolone would have no issues.
(While oxandrolone has a popular reputation of supposedly being immune to such problems, I learned from Michael Mooney who was very familiar with its use in HIV patients that that was by no means the case.)
As to why anabolic steroids would vary, the effect, according to what seemed to me the best analysis of the problem I found in the scientific literature, is not via the androgen receptor, nor by any anabolic-related effect. Rather it is a property common to any structure which comprises a steroidal structure with 17-alkylation, and includes estrogens and progestins. They had several possibilities for mechanism that remained, which sadly I don’t recall.
But at any rate there would be no need for all compounds to have the exact same potency (effect per mg) as each other in this unfortunate regard, and clearly they don’t.
Can you tell Im having a hard time letting go of the prospect of cycling what I once thought was a wonder-drug?
sighs
Well to answer some questions. I am a gymnast so I am using this for the strength gain not the mass gain. If anything I dont want much mass gain, I am using a Test Cyp cycle with the possible addition of Dbol, Anadrol or OT if I can get it, to do that.
By the looks of it I think I will be going with soontobeIFBB’s idea of using OT or Masterone Prop depending on what I can get. If using OT I will run it with some serious anti-liver tox supps and the such to be safe along with the usual PCT.